# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 481
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9601 "2016-06-03T11:05:14Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It’s hardly a principled stand you’re taking. You’re just declaring you’re against X, by saying stuff you support isn’t X… The principle is that he deplores his party’s cheating when it’s too blatant for him to come up with a legalistic/Jesuitical argument to support it, but if he can, then it must be fine and any quibblers are therefore misguided. And, despite its fucking obviousness, nowhere does he acknowledge a possible connection between the overt and covert stuff, even though it’s being done simultaneously by the same people and with the same effect. Yes, he admits there have been a few misguided individuals, but still refuses to acknowledge anything more organized - it’s all just coincidence. The importance of democracy, fairness, and justice is not, however, part of this “principled stand”. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9602 "2016-06-08T13:12:10Z")
[Federal judge says two Ohio voting laws are unconstitutional](http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/08/us/federal-judge-says-2-ohio-voting-laws-are-unconstitutional.html) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9603 "2016-06-08T14:27:12Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > [Federal judge says two Ohio voting laws are unconstitutional](http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/08/us/federal-judge-says-2-ohio-voting-laws-are-unconstitutional.html) But before that, they were constitutional. So they were okay, until they weren’t. Unless the Supreme Court overturns the ruling, in which case they always were. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9604 "2016-06-08T23:24:55Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > [Federal judge says two Ohio voting laws are unconstitutional](http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/08/us/federal-judge-says-2-ohio-voting-laws-are-unconstitutional.html) Hooray! I like the whine from the state attorney: “The sad reality is that much of Ohio’s election laws are no longer made by their elected representatives, but rather by unelected federal judges in response to politically motivated lawsuits.” No…the constitution prevailed, as it always must if it is be the supreme law of the land. You’d think these assholes took high school civics once in their life, but apparently never. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9605 "2016-06-09T00:48:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Lawyers for the state said the laws were reasonable and nondiscriminatory and imposed a minimal burden on voters. Judge Marbley found otherwise. Huh. How 'bout that. There’s that desperately asserted word “reasonable” again. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9606 "2016-06-09T15:13:38Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > [Federal judge says two Ohio voting laws are unconstitutional](http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/08/us/federal-judge-says-2-ohio-voting-laws-are-unconstitutional.html) IANAL, but I think it goes to the Appeals Court next. What I can’t remember is whether **Bricksforbrains** ’s opinion overrides the Appeals Court, but is subject to review by Scotus. Or Scotus gets first shot, with **Bricksforbrains** having the final word. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9607 "2016-06-09T16:50:59Z")
* * * > [@Trinopus](#): > > Hooray! > > I like the whine from the state attorney: “The sad reality is that much of Ohio’s election laws are no longer made by their elected representatives, but rather by unelected federal judges in response to politically motivated lawsuits.” > > No…the constitution prevailed, as it always must if it is be the supreme law of the land. You’d think these assholes took high school civics once in their life, but apparently never. The judge’s decision appears to be grounded in the Voting Rights Act, as opposed to the Constitution. But I don’t have any particular opinion about this issue; it involves procedure and ID requirements for absentee and provisional ballots only. So if anyone is reading this as a refutation of any claims I have advanced, that view is mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9608 "2016-06-09T16:54:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So if anyone is reading this as a refutation of any claims I have advanced, that view is mistaken. But it does make you look foolish, which is almost better. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9609 "2016-06-09T23:41:28Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > But before that, they were constitutional. So they were okay, until they weren’t. Unless the Supreme Court overturns the ruling, in which case they always were. If it makes you feel any better, objectively, GOP-created voting laws are typically unconstitutional. The decision by courts just affirms whether they are doing their jobs properly or not. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9610 "2016-06-10T07:38:23Z")
Finding voter fraud is easy, as long as you’re actually looking, which governments generally do not: > **[CBS2 Investigation Uncovers Votes Being Cast From Grave Year After Year](https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/cbs2-investigation-uncovers-votes-being-cast-from-grave-year-after-year/)** > > Hundreds of people who cast votes, according to state records, have been dead for years. > [@](#): > > LOS ANGELES ([CBSLA.com](http://CBSLA.com)) — A comparison of records by David Goldstein, investigative reporter for CBS2/KCAL9, has revealed hundreds of so-called dead voters in Southern California, a vast majority of them in Los Angeles County. > > “He took a lot of time choosing his candidates,” said Annette Givans of her father, John Cenkner. > > Cenkner died in Palmdale in 2003. Despite this, records show that he somehow voted from the grave in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008 and 2010. > > But he’s not the only one. > > CBS2 compared millions of voting records from the California Secretary of State’s office with death records from the Social Security Administration and found hundreds of so-called dead voters. > > Specifically, 265 in Southern California and a vast majority of them, 215, in Los Angeles County alone. > > The numbers come from state records that show votes were cast in that person’s name after they died. In some cases, Goldstein discovered that they voted year after year. Because CBS looked into it, of course now the Board of Elections is going to also look into it. It continues to amaze me how voter fraud investigations never seem to get initiated except in response to journalists. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9611 "2016-06-10T12:02:57Z")
And how many of HRC’s e-mails were sent to those voters? We’ll never know, because she deleted them! Connect the dot, people! ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9612 "2016-06-10T20:55:11Z")
Also, note that voter ID laws wouldn’t stop dead people from voting. Dead people have birth certificates. (A photo ID might help some. But, of course, the voter-suppressing laws in Ohio didn’t require a photo ID. They weren’t designed to ensure the authenticity of voting; they were designed to frustrate voter registration in the first place.) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9613 "2016-06-12T09:11:57Z")
California may be run by the libtards, but Siskiyou County is very strongly Republiopathic. (In fact, on September 3, 2013, the Siskiyou County Board of Supervisors voted 4-1 in favor of secession from California to form a proposed state named Jefferson.) [And boy, is Siskiyou trying to ensure that the wrong sort of people don’t vote.](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/jon-lopey-siskiyou-county-voter-fraud-probe) > [@](#): > > Having police come to your home wielding weapons and asking questions about your voter registration status just days before an election sends a clear signal. > > That signal wasn’t lost on residents of Hmong communities in rural northern California, who said police came to their doors doing just that earlier this month. They said authorities also set up a roadway checkpoint to target Hmong drivers, threatening to arrest and prosecute them if they voted illegally. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9614 "2016-06-12T14:25:19Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Also, note that voter ID laws wouldn’t stop dead people from voting. Dead people have birth certificates. > > (A photo ID might help some. But, of course, the voter-suppressing laws in Ohio didn’t require a photo ID. They weren’t designed to ensure the authenticity of voting; they were designed to frustrate voter registration in the first place.) I favor Voter ID laws. They help, as you concede, with the problem of dead people voting. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9615 "2016-06-12T15:20:50Z")
Due to frauds and mischief by authorities and voters, elections in the U.S. often give different results than the results that would obtain in free and fair elections. Here’s a serious and relevant question: _Estimate which are the ten types of fraud or mischief that affect electoral results most significantly._(Hint: If dead people voting makes your top ten list, you’re an ignorant dolt.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9616 "2016-06-12T15:54:56Z")
You know, after all of this, I’m beginning to suspect that the OP may be entirely correct, that there is an organized and concerted effort on the part of Republicans to “stack the deck” against their political opponents. Maybe I’m jumping the gun on this, but its sure starting to look that way. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9617 "2016-06-12T20:52:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I favor Voter ID laws. They help, as you concede, with the problem of dead people voting. You misquote me, sir. I said that photo ID laws might help with the problem of dead people voting. I did not “concede” that “Voter ID” laws would do so. (I did not “concede” anything at all.) I also used the word “might” which you removed from your mischaracterization of what I said. Keep up the good work; everyone can see what your method of debate is. ---
**Author:** ![manitou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@manitou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manitou)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9618 "2016-06-15T19:27:11Z")
With 2 minutes to go, Kris Kobach decides to follow court orders and re-enfranchise more than 18000 Kansas voters. [http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article83803472.html](http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article83803472.html) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9619 "2016-06-16T07:02:18Z")
> [@manitou](#): > > With 2 minutes to go, Kris Kobach decides to follow court orders and re-enfranchise more than 18000 Kansas voters. > > [http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article83803472.html](http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article83803472.html) Note that these newly-enfranchised voters will _only be allowed to vote for federal offices_. Twice as many ballot types now need to be prepared, ones with and without state and local offices. (Hmmm. Will votes subtotals be prepared by ballot type? Reulsts could be interesting.) In the broad space of Republiopathic electoral malfeasance, that Kansas will allow some voters to vote only for _federal_ officers since it was a _federal_ judge who found their process defective may seem like a petty matter. But I find it to be a good example of the insolence and disrespect with which GOP officials treat the law of the land. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/9620 "2016-06-16T07:08:55Z")
NETA for the **Brickhead** : Yes, yes, yes: Kansas may be _legally entitled_ to prevent these voters from casting votes not dictated by the federal judge. Whatever gives the GOP an electoral advantage … neener neener neener … your side loses … ha ha ha. But that isn’t the point. Following the letter of the law rather than the spirit is contemptible. Let me clarify with a simple example: Imagine a judge ruling that Rick must desist from flinging horse-shit at George. So Rick switches to donkey-shit. Is this an example of Rick’s clever knowledge of the law? Or just an example of his continued contemptible behavior? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=480) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=482)