# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 510
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10181 "2016-08-29T11:14:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So far as I can observe, you’re happier writing my dialog and then debating it than you ever were with my actual words. So _this_ is the extent of your own comment on _Crosscheck_. You have no intelligible comment to make on it one way or the other? Thousands of posts by you in this thread in support of GOP perfidy and you have nothing further to add? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10182 "2016-08-29T11:21:55Z")
Well, we have to admit that most of us were misled by the OP and the title, which strongly suggested that the central issue of the thread was Republican conspiracy and perfidy. Only **Bricker** had the insight and intelligence to realize that the _true_ central issue of the thread was the validity of voter id, as a principle. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10183 "2016-08-29T14:14:58Z")
Yes, but he’s also demonstrated malice on the issue of voter _names_, laughing at an old man who can’t vote because the name on his birth certificate was misspelled. **Bricker** thinks that man won’t deserve to vote until he goes through the bureaucratic rigmarole required to adopt the misspelling, 70 years later or such. I can see him laughing at the voters disenfranchised by _Crosscheck_: “If you really want to vote, change your surname from Gonzales to something more WASPy. Ha ha ha! Nanner Nanner Nanner! Your side would do it too if you had smart cookies like Karl Rove on your team.” ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10184 "2016-08-29T15:20:30Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > So _this_ is the extent of your own comment on _Crosscheck_. You have no intelligible comment to make on it one way or the other? Thousands of posts by you in this thread in support of GOP perfidy and you have nothing further to add? Which is why others have to speak for him. If he has nothing to add then there’s no debate, so they have to fill in the blanks. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10185 "2016-08-29T15:36:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So far as I can observe, you’re happier writing my dialog and then debating it than you ever were with my actual words. If I remember correctly, your actual dialog was something to the effect of “they tried to restrict minority voting this way in the past, which is evidence that when they did the exact same thing this time they weren’t targeting minority voters.” Which wasn’t particularly convincing as far as arguments go. But perhaps if you can find evidence that Republicans have tried to restrict minority voting using name databases in the past, which would be evidence that when they do the same thing this time they not actually trying to restrict minority voting, because reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10186 "2016-08-29T21:01:27Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > If I remember correctly, your actual dialog was something to the effect of “they tried to restrict minority voting this way in the past, which is evidence that when they did the exact same thing this time they weren’t targeting minority voters.” Which wasn’t particularly convincing as far as arguments go. > > But perhaps if you can find evidence that Republicans have tried to restrict minority voting using name databases in the past, which would be evidence that when they do the same thing this time they not actually trying to restrict minority voting, because reasons. I believe it stems from a legalistic mode of thought that contends, among other concepts, “you can’t prove I’m lying, therefore I’m telling the truth.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10187 "2016-08-29T22:25:14Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > So _this_ is the extent of your own comment on _Crosscheck_. You have no intelligible comment to make on it one way or the other? Thousands of posts by you in this thread in support of GOP perfidy and you have nothing further to add? If you’re writing my dialog, why would you want me to interfere? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10188 "2016-08-29T23:26:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If you’re writing my dialog, why would you want me to interfere? While I admit my own curiosity how long you’ll spin out the “you clearly don’t want MY opinion” mock indignation, it’s in close competition with how you (or anyone, really) can put a positive spin on this. If neither you nor anyone else will step up, I’ll try to think up something on my own. Whether or not it will end up looking like a parody of something you’d say will be in the eye of the beholder. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10189 "2016-08-29T23:53:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If you’re writing my dialog, why would you want me to interfere? You constantly whine about how oppressed you are. Maybe you should take some personal responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10190 "2016-08-30T05:24:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If you’re writing my dialog, why would you want me to interfere? So you think we’re _asking_ for your opinion because we _don’t_ want to hear it? Birds-of-a-feather flocking-together may mean that most of your acquaintances are lying hypocrites, but that doesn’t mean we are. _Crosscheck_ has been in the news recently. With no less than Two Thousand Four Hundred Eighty **Bricker** posts in this thread, can’t you spare a paragraph or two to give us the Brckerite wisdom on _Crosscheck_? Does it improve citizen confidence in electoral integrity? Is the fact that only GOP legislatures adopt it evidence that the GOP is the Party most concerned about fair elections? I suppose there are one or two Dopers who will just parse your words for their humor content, but surely you have hundreds of fans eagerly awaiting your wisdom. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10191 "2016-08-30T06:13:47Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > So you think we’re _asking_ for your opinion because we _don’t_ want to hear it? Birds-of-a-feather flocking-together may mean that most of your acquaintances are lying hypocrites, but that doesn’t mean we are. > > _Crosscheck_ has been in the news recently. With no less than Two Thousand Four Hundred Eighty **Bricker** posts in this thread, can’t you spare a paragraph or two to give us the Brckerite wisdom on _Crosscheck_? Does it improve citizen confidence in electoral integrity? Is the fact that only GOP legislatures adopt it evidence that the GOP is the Party most concerned about fair elections? > > I suppose there are one or two Dopers who will just parse your words for their humor content, but surely you have hundreds of fans eagerly awaiting your wisdom. Bricker has said, repeatedly, I might add, that I support the actions of the Mass legislature flipping who appoints replacement senators. He said that his evidence that I support it was that I didn’t post anything about it. In that respect, we must assume that Bricker supports Crosscheck without reservation. Or, that he’s a stupid hypocrite bitch. One or the other. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10192 "2016-08-30T06:56:46Z")
Crosscheck exists because states are violating the Help America Vote Act, which requires states to maintain updated lists of voters, and to regularly purge voters who are dead or have moved. I’d note that Help America Vote, which has ID requirements and purge requirements, was passed with overwhelming support from Democrats. ALthough that was before they realized they had a turnout problem. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10193 "2016-08-30T07:34:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Crosscheck exists because states are violating the Help America Vote Act, which requires states to maintain updated lists of voters, and to regularly purge voters who are dead or have moved. That may be why it _exists_ but is it _helpful_ in the maintenance of voter lists to assume the John Smith listed in one state and the John Smith listed in another state are the same person, on name-basis alone? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10194 "2016-08-30T07:44:13Z")
The concerns about the right way to do voter purges are legitimate. What is not legitimate is to oppose all purges because there might be mistakes. If Republican states are overzealous in their purge efforts that should be called out. But Florida actually wanted to do their purges right a few years ago and had to go to court to get the federal government to share their databases because the administration didn’t want any purges at all. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10195 "2016-08-30T08:07:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If you’re writing my dialog, why would you want me to interfere? The better question is why you would want to allow him to write your dialog. This shit is why I consider you really partisan. It’s what you refuse to say. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10196 "2016-08-30T08:15:28Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The concerns about the right way to do voter purges are legitimate. What is not legitimate is to oppose all purges because there might be mistakes. If Republican states are overzealous in their purge efforts that should be called out. But Florida actually wanted to do their purges right a few years ago and had to go to court to get the federal government to share their databases because the administration didn’t want any purges at all. Got an example of a purge done right? May as well establish a baseline. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10197 "2016-08-30T08:28:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Crosscheck exists because states are violating the Help America Vote Act, which requires states to maintain updated lists of voters, and to regularly purge voters who are dead or have moved. :smack: Crosscheck is the brain-child of [Kris Kobach](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris_Kobach) a partisan right-winger who became famous for legal mischief (overriding his Assistant) to scre the Democratic ballot in a 2014 Senate race. For newcomers: Ignore everything **adaher** writes. If it doesn’t come with a cite, you can assume it is a lie. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10198 "2016-08-30T08:30:46Z")
Purges are a regular feature of maintaining databases. Generally they only make headlines when they go badly wrong, or when a partisan administration decides to interfere in contravention of the law. It’s good for Rolling Stone to report on Crosscheck, and I’m surprised the mainstream media hasn’t been interested. There’s certainly room for mischief here, although Rolling Stone failed to prove any. All they found is that government databases are not very accurate. Who knew? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10199 "2016-08-30T08:31:53Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > :smack: Crosscheck is the brain-child of [Kris Kobach](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris_Kobach) a partisan right-winger who became famous for legal mischief (overriding his Assistant) to scre the Democratic ballot in a 2014 Senate race. > > For newcomers: Ignore everything **adaher** writes. If it doesn’t come with a cite, you can assume it is a lie. I suggest you read up on the Help America Vote act, which requires regular maintenance of voter databases. Democrats supported that law. If they now oppose purges, then they should pass laws outlawing the maintenance of voter lists. Oh wait, no balls. Democrats also have yet to have the guts to actually repeal a voter ID law either. They know where the public stands on this, so they work through unelected activist groups and the courts instead. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10200 "2016-08-30T08:47:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Purges are a regular feature of maintaining databases. Generally they only make headlines when they go badly wrong, or when a partisan administration decides to interfere in contravention of the law. > > It’s good for Rolling Stone to report on Crosscheck, and I’m surprised the mainstream media hasn’t been interested. There’s certainly room for mischief here, although Rolling Stone failed to prove any. All they found is that government databases are not very accurate. Who knew? Yes. Elections, like prisons, are best turned over to the private sector. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=509) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=511)