# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 513
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10241 "2016-08-31T11:39:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The kerfluffle about Franken and the “felon vote” is deep dish crapola. I’m assuming that you haven’t really dug into that story and just heard a snippet passed around. > > What I gathered from local news sources was confusion resulting from misunderstanding terms of probation. That is, felons released from prison some time past but who still had some probationary time on their sentence were advised that they need not _report_ any longer, effectively “ending” their probation. > > It was not made clear to them that their civil rights were _not_ restored, as they would be (in MN) at the end of their probation. They thought their probation had been legally shortened, their sentence served, and they were restored. They were mistaken. > > The election was incredibly close, the recount was public, transparent, and agonizingly slow. Once it became apparent that the Republicans would lose by a butterfly’s whisker, they got frantic, searching for something other than what was laid out before them. This “felon vote” booshwa was a dull flash in the pan. Franken won by the merest margin, but fair and square. > > You should check your source on that driblet of diarrhea, and never listen to them again. You’re moving the goalposts. An illegal vote shouldn’t count, whether the vote is intentional or not. I’m not calling for prosecutions, just a voiding of elections that are decided by illegal votes. I’m sure most non-citizens who vote aren’t aware they are committing a crime either. Doesn’t mean their votes should count. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10242 "2016-08-31T13:01:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You’re moving the goalposts. An illegal vote shouldn’t count, whether the vote is intentional or not. I’m not calling for prosecutions, just a voiding of elections that are decided by illegal votes. I’m sure most non-citizens who vote aren’t aware they are committing a crime either. Doesn’t mean their votes should count. Your **imaginary** voters are not reason enough to keep your dumb biases going. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10243 "2016-08-31T14:30:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > …I’m sure most non-citizens who vote aren’t aware they are committing a crime either. Doesn’t mean their votes should count. You’re “sure”? Based on what? Have you even the slightest crumb of actual information? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10244 "2016-08-31T14:38:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > > [@adaher](#): > > > > …I’m sure most non-citizens who vote aren’t aware they are committing a crime either. Doesn’t mean their votes should count. > > You’re “sure”? Based on what? Have you even the slightest crumb of actual information? I actually have to agree with **adaher** on this. If there are any non-citizens who vote, they probably aren’t aware that it’s a crime. Very few people will risk prison to cast a single vote, especially if it’s not even their country. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10245 "2016-08-31T14:51:15Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I actually have to agree with **adaher** on this. If there are any non-citizens who vote, they probably aren’t aware that it’s a crime. Very few people will risk prison to cast a single vote, especially if it’s not even their country. They may think that we in america live to our ideals. That whole no taxation without representation thing that we fought a war over implies to me that those who pay taxes should get to vote. Yes, I do know that that is not how it is, but it does seem it should be. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10246 "2016-08-31T15:21:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You’re moving the goalposts. An illegal vote shouldn’t count, whether the vote is intentional or not. I’m not calling for prosecutions, just a voiding of elections that are decided by illegal votes. I’m sure most non-citizens who vote aren’t aware they are committing a crime either. Doesn’t mean their votes should count. I want to be sure about this. You are _not_ actually saying, suggesting, implying or insinuating that Franken was elected illegally? Because of felons voting? That the number of felons voting tipped the election in Franken’s favor? Or are you honestly and truly that ill-informed? How is it that someone who can type cannot read? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10247 "2016-08-31T15:32:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You’re moving the goalposts. An illegal vote shouldn’t count, whether the vote is intentional or not. I’m not calling for prosecutions, just a voiding of elections that are decided by illegal votes. I’m sure most non-citizens who vote aren’t aware they are committing a crime either. Doesn’t mean their votes should count. Taking a step back for a moment, I’m sure nearly everyone in this thread agrees that (a) it’s a good thing to prevent people who legally can not vote from voting, and (b) it’s good to have some way of verifying the identity of voters, and even (c) it’s good to improve people’s confidence in the integrity of the electoral system. The problem is, according to the majority (in this thread) position, that the changes proposed by the Republicans, while _claiming_ do improve the above, will have little or no impact when it comes to their stated aim, but a large amount of “splash damage” which will disenfranchise legitimate voters. And, furthermore, that the Republicans are well aware of this splash damage, and that, cynically, it is their primary purpose in the first place. So merely taking anything on its face value is pointless. If the Republicans propose law X, adding an ID requirement to vote, and Democrats oppose law X, it doesn’t mean (again, in our interpretation) that Republicans support voter ID or that Democrats oppose voter ID, it means that Republicans don’t give a fuck about voter ID but believe that law X will win them electoral advantage and Democrats don’t give a fuck about voter ID but sure as hell don’t want the Republicans to win electoral advantage; plus in this case the Democratic position happens to be both politically convenient and ethically correct, because they are NOT the ones trying to sneakily prevent legitimate voters from voting. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10248 "2016-08-31T15:42:26Z")
Well, OK, **Max** , but shouldn’t somebody have said something like that sooner? I mean, here we are, 200 pages in, and finally somebody points this out? You mean to say that it isn’t actually the principle of voter id that is obnoxious, but the way it is applied in a partisan and unjust fashion? Wow! Game changer! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10249 "2016-08-31T16:11:55Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, OK, **Max** , but shouldn’t somebody have said something like that sooner? I mean, here we are, 200 pages in, and finally somebody points this out? > > You mean to say that it isn’t actually the principle of voter id that is obnoxious, but the way it is applied in a partisan and unjust fashion? Wow! Game changer! In fairness to Max, if he states the obvious to adaher, it’s because adaher is always starting from a point of zero information. In bluntness to adaher, he determinedly _stays_ at a point of zero information, so Max’s effort, while noble, is futile. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10250 "2016-08-31T16:13:50Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > This is very similar, in world-view, claim, and in tone, to many Bricker posts. Do others agree that this is reminscent of Bricker’s perspective? I think I’ll call **adaher** the **Bricker Apprentice**. > > Let’s turn this thread into an exploration of psychological connections between **adaher** and **Bricker**. > > @ **Bricker** , again we need input from _you_. I doubt you’d call **adaher** your understudy, but is he an apprentice? a disciple? Or is his a false-flag operation? One of Bricker’s favoured tactics is to accuse liberals of not policing the nuttier views of other liberals. Let’s see if Bricker weighs in on the adahar issue. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2016, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10251 "2016-09-01T14:18:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But your enthusiasm for a higher court is noted. If the Fourth Circuit rehears this en banc and affirms the district court, will you retain this great respect for them? How’s your enthusiasm for the Supreme Court nowadays? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10252 "2016-09-01T14:42:08Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > How’s your enthusiasm for the Supreme Court nowadays? As peppy as ever. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10253 "2016-09-02T02:43:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But I don’t agree it’s wrong to make it harder to vote. I think the country benefits when those who vote invest some effort in doing so, rather than doing so without sacrifice of time or energy. And I will remember this. You just supported disenfranchisement. You admit it will disproportionally affect poor people. Actual data says it will affect black people more. But you are okay with all that. There’s little point in arguing with you at all if you that anti-democratic and anti-American. You used to support Voter ID but try to make it where it wouldn’t disenfranchise anyone. Remember your idea about using fingerprints? Yet here you are, falling over yourself to support measures that do disenfranchise. And of course if you think an institution is coming to the wrong decision then your support for that institution will decrease. If your waiter does a bad job at serving you, you’ll think less of them. You’ve made it quite clear you think less of the Court for not following the legal doctrine you think is correct. It’s just a gotcha you try to do. And, if you had a valid argument, you would need no gotchas. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10254 "2016-09-02T03:06:05Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > There’s little point in arguing with you at all if you that anti-democratic and anti-American. It would be fine with me if you stopped. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10255 "2016-09-02T03:23:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It would be fine with me if you stopped. It would have been fine with Hitler if Montgomery and Zhukov stopped. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10256 "2016-09-02T13:50:46Z")
Republicans want voter ID because they think that criminals and illegal aliens vote Democratic. Democrats oppose voter ID because they agree. > [@Trinopus](#): > > It would have been fine with Hitler if Montgomery and Zhukov stopped. Missed our meds this morning, did we? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10257 "2016-09-02T14:20:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Republicans want voter ID because they think that criminals and illegal aliens vote Democratic. Democrats oppose voter ID because they agree. Powerful straw-manning here. Bravo. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10258 "2016-09-02T14:48:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Missed our meds this morning, did we? > > Regards, > Shodan An observation from bitter experience? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10259 "2016-09-02T14:53:39Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > An observation from bitter experience? Which one? His life sounds like endless bitter experiences. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10260 "2016-09-02T14:59:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Which one? His life sounds like endless bitter experiences. That’s not true. Some days he wakes up and sunlight is filling the trailer, his mullet just falls into place, and his shift leader assigns him drive thru. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=512) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=514)