# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 517
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10321 "2016-09-20T09:09:58Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Interesting tactic, but what if someone dies on election day after polls have opened but before they close? Check to see if they voted and track down their ballot to void it? A voter could drop dead of a heart attack as they were leaving the polling place, and their vote would still count. They were a validly registered voter, living at their registered address, at the time they cast their vote. Dying after voting does not invalidate their vote. Here in Minnesota, if requested, we will send a pair of election judges to a hospital or nursing home to allow sick people to cast their votes. It’s quite likely that somew of those critically-ill patients may have died later that same day. There vote still counts, as it should! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10322 "2016-09-20T09:33:07Z")
Given that one can still be voted _for_ despite having died between getting on the ballot and voting day, I fail to see the issue here. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10323 "2016-09-20T09:36:46Z")
Voter confidence falls off drastically when you die. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10324 "2016-09-20T10:10:12Z")
[Not always](http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/09/dead-man-wins-primary-election-in-upstate-new-york.html), to cite a recent example. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10325 "2016-09-20T15:31:41Z")
Good point, I cede dead people. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10326 "2016-09-21T10:01:53Z")
I cede what you did there. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10327 "2016-09-22T03:42:27Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > A voter could drop dead of a heart attack as they were leaving the polling place, and their vote would still count. They were a validly registered voter, living at their registered address, at the time they cast their vote. Dying after voting does not invalidate their vote. Feel free to point this out to the Republican who tried to argue that early voting raised the specter (heh) of counting the votes of people who are now dead. Under existing early-voting rules, they also cast valid votes. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10328 "2016-09-22T20:01:39Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > What is the alleged purpose of this colossal goat fuck? I kinda know what the actual purpose is, but don’t yet grasp the sham purpose. > > Juan Garcia lives at 123 Maple St., Los Angeles, CA. He is registered to vote there. He previously lived in New York, NY, and registered to vote there. So, maybe he is still registered to vote in NY, he can legally vote in CA, jump a quick plane to NY, and vote there? Too silly to give any thought to. > > Juan lives in CA, and somebody finds out he’s moved to CA, and…aha!..his registration is available in NY for someone to exploit and vote as him! So, all they have to do to get a thousand fake votes is research enough registration records to find enough people who moved so they can fake their votes. And assign one hundred people to vote ten times in one of those names… No, the logistics of massive voter impersonation fraud is still absurd. Security issues involving several hundred, several thousand conspirators? Still too stupid. > > So what dread thing is Crosscheck allegedly going to prevent? Exactly. Even if someone tried this it wouldn’t work, at least in Suffolk County, NY. I was registered to vote in both New York and Maryland the year my family moved moved. But I was bouncing between houses and ended up voting in NY because our house hadn’t been rented out yet and I was there on Election Day. Fast forward to the next year. Now I’m in MD, vote there, but am still registered in NY. If someone showed up in NY to vote in my name they would have had to have been able to duplicate my signature. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10329 "2016-09-29T19:49:33Z")
[The Trump campaign is organizing to block blacks and other likely Democratic voters on Election Day.](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/09/trump-poll-watchers-discrimination) > [@](#): > > Donald Trump’s campaign website implores voters to “Help Me Stop Crooked Hillary From Rigging This Election!” by signing up as observers. > … a wave of partisan poll watchers could create confusion and discourage people who have a right to cast ballots. > … the person bringing a challenge needs little if any evidence, with the burden of proof falling on voters accused of being ineligible… > > Voters can be required to produce multiple forms of identification to prove their current address, find another voter willing to vouch for them, or swear to a statement that affirms their qualifications. In many states, challenged voters can fill out a provisional ballot that will be verified later. For Rigueur, the entire process took about three hours, she says, in part because of the delays and confusion caused by the numerous challenges being brought against others at the polling place. > … > “The rules vary state by state, but what is almost universal is the fact that there aren’t many safeguards for voters who are subject to challenges.” The Trump-turds are targeting swing states like PA, VA, WI. I’m interested in hearing from SDMB’s pro-suppression spokesman. Is this another example of democracy at its finest? Will it improve our confidence in the election outcome? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10330 "2016-09-29T19:51:03Z")
Why, whoever do you mean? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10331 "2016-09-29T19:52:57Z")
But serially, folks… If Trump does anything, he will be ham fisted about it, subtle ain’t his strong suit. In the cold light of _realpolitik_, I would bet the backlash response from voters would overwhelm any advantage he might get out of it. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10332 "2016-09-29T20:09:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > But serially, folks… > > If Trump does anything, he will be ham fisted about it, subtle ain’t his strong suit. In the cold light of _realpolitik_, I would bet the backlash response from voters would overwhelm any advantage he might get out of it. I don’t understand this. It will happen on Election Day itself, with polling in the Democratic precincts of Pennsylvania, Virginia, and GOP-controlled states like Ohio and Wisconsin brought to a standstill. Polls will close with dissatisfied Democrats turned away. Do you expect a lawsuit to reverse the results if Trump wins one of those states? Maybe 80-year old Justice Kennedy, appointed by the liberal Reagan, will make a 5-3 Scotus vote for integrity but I wouldn’t count on it. I just hope grassroots Democrats are prepared for this, and prepared to operate counter-measures, perhaps even going eye-for-an-eye and attacking Trumpturdy precincts the same way. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10333 "2016-09-29T21:28:49Z")
[About that non-existent voter fraud:](http://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2016/09/29/washington-mall-shooter-a-noncitizen-somehow-managed-to-vote-in-three-elections-n2225163?utm_source=thdailypm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl_pm&newsletterad=) (emphasis mine) > [@](#): > > **Federal sources confirm to KING 5 that Cetin was not a U.S. citizen, meaning legally he cannot vote. However, state records show Cetin registered to vote in 2014 and participated in three election cycles, including the May presidential primary.** > > Cetin, who immigrated to the United States from Turkey as a child, is considered a permanent resident or green card holder. While a permanent resident can apply for U.S. citizenship after a certain period of time, sources tell KING his status had not changed from green card holder to U.S. citizen. > > While voters must attest to citizenship upon registering online or registering to vote at the Department of Licensing Office, Washington state doesn’t require proof of citizenship. Therefore elections officials say the state’s elections system operates, more or less, under an honor system. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10334 "2016-09-29T21:40:33Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > [About that non-existent voter fraud:](http://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2016/09/29/washington-mall-shooter-a-noncitizen-somehow-managed-to-vote-in-three-elections-n2225163?utm_source=thdailypm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl_pm&newsletterad=) > > (emphasis mine) And voter ID laws would have prevented that how? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10335 "2016-09-29T22:08:21Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And voter ID laws would have prevented that how? Well, one guy managed to do something. It’s important that we wildly overreact. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10336 "2016-09-29T22:11:13Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Well, one guy managed to do something. It’s important that we wildly overreact. Sounds like a national voter ID system would have actually done more to prevent that type of voter fraud than the types of voter ID laws that have been implemented and spoken of in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10337 "2016-09-29T22:25:20Z")
If the other side was sincere, we could make a deal in five minutes flat. Sure, we’ll go for voter id, in the name of voter confidence. Its bullshit, but harmless enough IF! IF! There is a concerted and proactive effort to ensure easy, free and convenient access. More early voting opportunities, Sunday voting. A _serious_ effort to change polling opportunity, so that citizens of densely populated areas don’t end up waiting four hours to vote. Not much to ask for relieving their shivering terror of voter fraud! Persons of good will could hammer out the details of that compromise in an afternoon! If they were sincere. Right now, what they are offering is they will do what they want and they will let us shut up about it. They aren’t sincere, so all we owe them is a whoopin’. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10338 "2016-09-29T22:35:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If the other side was sincere, we could make a deal in five minutes flat. > > Sure, we’ll go for voter id, in the name of voter confidence. Its bullshit, but harmless enough IF! IF! There is a concerted and proactive effort to ensure easy, free and convenient access. More early voting opportunities, Sunday voting. A _serious_ effort to change polling opportunity, so that citizens of densely populated areas don’t end up waiting four hours to vote. Not much to ask for relieving their shivering terror of voter fraud! > > Persons of good will could hammer out the details of that compromise in an afternoon! > > If they were sincere. Right now, what they are offering is they will do what they want and they will let us shut up about it. They aren’t sincere, so all we owe them is a whoopin’. I do not believe that anyone in this thread is against the principle of Voter Id law, just the how it has been implemented in rather cynical and undemocratic ways. Voter ID laws could be passed that not only have no negative effect on the electorate, but could also do some social good. These are not the laws that have been passed. There are many ways to implement them that would not cause these problems or complaints. If you want an example, just look at pretty much any other country. Pick one that you think works well. Or come up with your own, as long as it is designed from the beginning to be inclusive rather than exclusive, it would not get a complaint. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10339 "2016-09-30T00:03:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If the other side was sincere, we could make a deal in five minutes flat. > > Sure, we’ll go for voter id, in the name of voter confidence. Its bullshit, but harmless enough IF! IF! There is a concerted and proactive effort to ensure easy, free and convenient access. More early voting opportunities, Sunday voting. A _serious_ effort to change polling opportunity, so that citizens of densely populated areas don’t end up waiting four hours to vote. Not much to ask for relieving their shivering terror of voter fraud! > > Persons of good will could hammer out the details of that compromise in an afternoon! > > If they were sincere. Right now, what they are offering is they will do what they want and they will let us shut up about it. They aren’t sincere, so all we owe them is a whoopin’. Sounds good. But, of course, the devil is in the details. It reminds me of the argument about securing the border. “Sure, we’ll do it, but as a part of a comprehensive plan…yada yada, yada”. It’s bullshit. They just make enough demands to make sure that the border won’t be secured. If everyone agrees that it would be a good thing to secure the border, or secure that the vote is not abused by requiring a voter ID, just do it! The truth is that people are happy to do some of the things you’d want to make it easier to vote, but probably not ALL of them. And if you demand enough of them you’re just assuring that voter ID will not happen. Voter ID aside, there is a philosophical debate about just how easy it should be to vote. Some, like I, think that it needn’t, and shouldn’t be, TOO simple. It’s a right that people around the world risk their lives for. I certainly don’t think that the system we have now is overly restrictive. People stand on lines for 4 days for the latest iPhone, spending a few minutes in line to vote just isn’t that big a deal. I’ve done it. Once I think it was an hour. But that was an outlier. The bottom line is that the reasons you state in favor of instituting a Voter ID law are merits in and of themselves. If we had the exact system now and just added that one thing, the system would improve. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10340 "2016-09-30T00:30:38Z")
Making voting harder just for the sake of making it harder is riding the stupid-bus to idiot-town, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=516) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=518)