# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 518
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10341 "2016-09-30T00:45:28Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Sounds like a national voter ID system would have actually done more to prevent that type of voter fraud than the types of voter ID laws that have been implemented and spoken of in this thread. Of course that opens one big can of worms. Namely the anti-world government, anti-sign of the beast elements of the troglodyte right. Of course Trump and the republicans continue to seek their support. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10342 "2016-09-30T00:51:06Z")
[What Wisconsin is doing to make sure people can vote.](https://www.thenation.com/article/wisconsin-is-systematically-failing-to-provide-the-photo-ids-required-to-vote-in-november/)\* - Republicans only, of course, as the only actual human beings. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10343 "2016-09-30T01:51:58Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > …Voter ID aside, there is a philosophical debate about just how easy it should be to vote. Some, like I, think that it needn’t, and shouldn’t be, TOO simple. … Well, you brought it up, hoss, how simple is _too_ simple? How, exactly, do you propose that someone affirm their right to vote? Would it be something you do, like service guarantees citizenship? Or something you are, a quality, maybe intelligence? Where you and I get to vote, but a dumbass like **EvilEcon** is out of luck? Maybe grades of citizenship relative to income, with platinum citizenship getting to vote by sending their valet? Bottom rung is permitted to vote anywhere they can walk to. Barefoot. These are, of course, ridiculous suggestions. What’s yours? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10344 "2016-09-30T02:12:02Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And voter ID laws would have prevented that how? Yeah,\*\* magellan01\*\*, how? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10345 "2016-09-30T03:06:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, you brought it up, hoss, how simple is _too_ simple? . . . Letting someone else do it for you. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10346 "2016-09-30T13:41:26Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Voter ID aside, there is a philosophical debate about just how easy it should be to vote. Some, like I, think that it needn’t, and shouldn’t be, TOO simple. It’s a right that people around the world risk their lives for. I certainly don’t think that the system we have now is overly restrictive. People stand on lines for 4 days for the latest iPhone, spending a few minutes in line to vote just isn’t that big a deal. I’ve done it. Once I think it was an hour. But that was an outlier. > > The bottom line is that the reasons you state in favor of instituting a Voter ID law are merits in and of themselves. If we had the exact system now and just added that one thing, the system would improve. You once waited in line for an hour? How does that qualify you to vote? There are people who have waited in line for 4 hours. There are people who waited in line for 7 or 8 hours. No, no, I don’t think you deserve to vote. It is too easy for you. Please find a polling place with longer lines before you are allowed to vote again. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10347 "2016-09-30T13:59:15Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You once waited in line for an hour? How does that qualify you to vote? There are people who have waited in line for 4 hours. There are people who waited in line for 7 or 8 hours. > > No, no, I don’t think you deserve to vote. It is too easy for you. > > Please find a polling place with longer lines before you are allowed to vote again. Thank you. I had a hangnail once and I managed okay, so I think people with gunshot wounds should stop whining. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10348 "2016-09-30T14:41:12Z")
They usually do. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10349 "2016-09-30T23:31:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Juan lives in CA, and somebody finds out he’s moved to CA, and…aha!..his registration is available in NY for someone to exploit and vote as him! So, all they have to do to get a thousand fake votes is research enough registration records to find enough people who moved so they can fake their votes. And assign one hundred people to vote ten times in one of those names… No, the logistics of massive voter impersonation fraud is still absurd. Security issues involving several hundred, several thousand conspirators? Still too stupid. > > So what dread thing is Crosscheck allegedly going to prevent? In NYS the fake voters would also have to match the signatures of the persons they’re impersonating. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10350 "2016-09-30T23:42:47Z")
Apparently my mother has been caught up in the voter ID thing in Wisconsin and it’s keeping her from getting a driver’s license. She was born in Wisconsin and has her original birth certificate. She married my father in 1947 and divorced him in 1971, both in Wausau. Remarried in 1975. That marriage took place in “some town near Milwaukee”, she’s 92 and can’t remember where exactly, but she knows which county. That man died in 1976. She remarried again in Wausau in 1980. Each time she married, she changed her last name. (Note to young women getting married for the first time - keep your maiden name. It will simplify your life.) She and that husband moved to Arkansas where he died in 1997. Her Arkansas driver’s license is in that name. She recently moved back to Wisconsin and right now cannot get a license because she does not have the original marriage licenses for her first two marriages. Apparently she has to prove her name changes over the years. Unfortunately she never got a US passport. Can the Social Security Administration help with the name changes? Or does the state not trust them? If she can go to the county clerk’s offices of the two counties she got married in, can they give her certified copies of the marriage licenses? Are those copies OK to use? The instructions say “original”. Are there substitute documents such as wills? If she can’t get a driver’s license she’ll be greatly inconvenienced. She’s spry for 92 and has always done her own shopping, going to church, etc. It would be a shame to relegate her to being dependent on others for transport. The joke’s on the GOP in her instance. She’s been a lifelong Republican. She’s given up on being able to vote this year, but if she had been able to, she probably would have picked Johnson (is disgusted by Trump) and then the straight Republican ticket down ballot. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10351 "2016-10-01T12:44:42Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And this just in… > > [https://thinkprogress.org/north-carolina-gops-new-argument-against-early-voting-people-could-die-before-election-day-8b7e36748248#.2s1q1b2t4](https://thinkprogress.org/north-carolina-gops-new-argument-against-early-voting-people-could-die-before-election-day-8b7e36748248#.2s1q1b2t4) > > (Includes quote on video) > > _…And dey back to back, belly to belly > Don’t give a damn, dey done vote already…_ I haven’t been reading this thread until today. But **elucidator** , I have to comment on that North Carolina news item. It’s amusing(now) for me to note that in 2012 my grandmother voted in the Presidential election. My cousin’s daughter assisted her in filling out the ballot. This was advance voting from the nursing home my grandma lived in, about a month before the actual election. By that time my grandmother had died. But she’d had her say in her 22nd straight presidential voting, starting in 1928. I suspect her vote and mine canceled each other out.😛 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10352 "2016-10-01T14:54:39Z")
For people wanting to keep up with what is happening during our national celebration of voter confidence, or for those who have the mistaken impression that the Forces of Darkness have retreated from the field, our good friends over at _Daily Kos_ are keeping an ongoing update on the struggle against the Terror of Voter Fraud… > **[This week in the war on voting: Scott Walker's DMV in hot water](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/10/1/1576460/-This-week-in-the-war-on-voting-Scott-Walker-s-DMV-in-hot-water)** > > Welcome to the latest edition in our war on voting series. This is a joint project of Meteor Blades and Joan McCarter. > > This week we found out that Wisconsin has joined Texas in flouting judges' ... (Liberal cooties abound, appropriate protocols recommended) This weeks notes start off with the adorable Scott Walker’s ongoing effort to dance around Court rulings and prevent inappropriate voters from voting. “Equal Justice Under the Law”, sorta kinda. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10353 "2016-10-02T07:13:25Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Apparently my mother has been caught up in the voter ID thing in Wisconsin and it’s keeping her from getting a driver’s license. Please thank your mother on our behalf, and on behalf of all Americans. Sacrifices like hers “improve our confidence in election outcomes,” or so our constitutional expert advises us. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10354 "2016-10-02T12:24:48Z")
Bah. She simply esteems it too lightly, or she wouldn’t have any problems. We have it on the best authority (The best, believe me! Sad!) that anyone who needs an ID can easily get one, and that these restrictions are reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10355 "2016-10-04T01:51:34Z")
Maybe the coolest post I’ve come across in the five or so months I’ve been snurfling the SDMB: > [@elucidator](#): > > Good point, I cede dead people. 🙂 > [@Leaper](#): > > [What Wisconsin is doing to make sure people can vote.](https://www.thenation.com/article/wisconsin-is-systematically-failing-to-provide-the-photo-ids-required-to-vote-in-november/)\* > > - Republicans only, of course, as the only actual human beings. wow - great: "The state keeps frantically changing its procedures to mollify the courts, leading to even more confusion among voters. Last week the Walker Administration proposed issuing ‘voting purposes only’ IDs that could not be used for anything else, like opening a bank account. ‘The Division of Motor Vehicles also wants the free IDs—born of voter-fraud fears – to be cheapened in quality, with some fraud protections removed,’ the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported. ‘The more they change the procedures, the clearer it becomes that this has nothing to do with voter impersonation,’ [a different Sean, probably less hot] Young [of the ACLU] says. ‘The whole process has no meaning anymore. It’s just a pointless obstacle to the right to vote.’” Curious to see what the follow-up is on how successful this newest “voting purposes only” IDs thingie pans out. And yes, it deserves nothing more than a “thingie” appellation for now. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10356 "2016-10-05T19:02:42Z")
[From here.](http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/illegal-voters-uncovered-philly-just-tip-iceberg/) > [@](#): > > At least 86 non-citizens have been registered voters in Philadelphia since 2013, and almost half — 40 — even voted in at least one recent election, according to a legal group that sued to get voter registration records. > > Joseph Vanderhulst, an attorney with the Public Interest Legal Foundation, noted Philadelphia knows about those 86 illegal voters only because officials received specific requests — in almost every case from the voters themselves — to remove the names from the rolls. He said there is no way to know how many non-citizens might be registered to vote in Philadelphia, let alone in the rest of politically crucial Pennsylvania. > > \ > > Research by the law firm also indicated that Philadelphia makes no effort to proactively remove non-citizens or incarcerated felons, who also are ineligible to vote under Pennsylvania law. Philadelphia becomes the latest jurisdiction that the Public Interest Legal Foundation has revealed to have irregularities in the voter rolls. The group recently found 1,046 non-citizens who had been registered to vote in eight Virginia counties and that nearly 200 cast ballots between 2005 and 2015. > > \ > > Vanderhulst said the legal foundation encountered indifference and outright hostility when lawyers began seeking information. The group made a request under the Help America Vote Act in January. After the city ignored the request, the firm sued. The information that the city ultimately provided shows that: > > The city canceled 23 registered voters in 2015. Of that group, seven voted in past elections, and three had been registered for more than a decade. > The city canceled 30 registered voters in 2014. Of that group, 18 had voted in past elections, and eight had been registered for at least a decade. > The city canceled 33 registered voters in 2013. Of that group, 15 had voted in past elections, and six had been registered for at least a decade. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10357 "2016-10-05T19:37:03Z")
**Mags**? Who the fuck is _Polizette_? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10358 "2016-10-05T19:42:15Z")
The PILF and Vanderhurst have been spreading these “concerns” for years, usually with zero (or very, very questionable) evidence. They used to be called “Act Right Legal Foundation” and associated with right-wing groups like the National Organization for Marriage. Most of the “irregularities” that PILF alleges they’ve found in various states turn out to be people who moved away or died or had the same name as someone else. None of those things are fraudulent. [PILF’s](http://www.freep.com/story/opinion/columnists/nancy-kaffer/2015/09/08/voter-fraud-rolls-michigan/71721558/) [record](http://dakotafreepress.com/2015/09/07/right-wing-vote-fraud-shouters-accuse-five-sd-counties-of-inflated-voter-rolls/) is of trying to help Republicans and hurt Democrats, not in actually sniffing out voter fraud. Without very detailed data, I’m very skeptical that this new allegation is any different than all their old ones, which relied on shoddy data at best. Further, investigations into voter fraud have shown that in-person voter fraud is incredibly rare, but for what little actual fraud is found, [most of it is absentee voter fraud](http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/09/01/voter_fraud_exists_through_absentee_ballots_but_republicans_won_t_stop_it.html). Absentee votes tend to favor Republicans, so Republicans generally haven’t done anything to go after absentee voting. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10359 "2016-10-05T19:43:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > **Mags**? Who the fuck is _Polizette_? Polizette is right-wing entertainer Laura Ingraham’s politics website. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10360 "2016-10-07T14:42:41Z")
In Florida, Scott is refusing to extend the registration deadline of next Tuesday due to the hurricane. When asked why at a press conference this AM, the partisan coward ducked the question and claimed to be focused on the hurricane. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=517) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=519)