# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1021 "2012-07-07T14:13:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You ask me: What is the Spirit of the Constitution! I know you didn’t, but I’m going to tell you anyway. (cue the music…wheres the music…you know, that smarmy inspirational stuff they play when they’re about to take a huge patriotic dump of maudlin sentiment…no, not _Country Joe and the Fish_, what are you, nuts? Friggin hippies! Fuck it, I’ll write it myself, I’ll do it live!!..) > > Justice is the spirit of the Constitution. It is the spirit that inspired the Founding Fuckups to create something beyond anything seen before, a flawed but revolutionary framework, a secular miracle. As individual men, none of them were remotely equal to the task, inspired by justice, they brought forth a wonderful thing. > > When the Constitution is used to promote justice, that spirit thrives. When the Constitution is used to assert that one man is another’s property, it becomes unjust, the spirit is violated. Or when it is used to assert that one political party may use the mechanisms of law to vote itself an electoral advantage, it is unjust, and hence, unConstitutional even if it does not contradict any specific words of the Constitution. > > Perhaps we listen more closely to the Constitution, that we hear the music as well as the words. Who gets to decide what constitutes justice? See, I say that the spirit of justice is maintained when we assure that our elections are counted correctly. You say my solution violates justice; I say it maintains it. Who decides? See, that’s the question you keep dodging. When the legislature, the courts, and the majority of the people all favor Voter ID laws, what possible legitimate mechanism in a representative democracy can scuttle them? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1022 "2012-07-07T14:30:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, it sounds like a great law. Because it’s a law that does more than simply “incentivises [sic] more people to not vote.” > > It also creates a framework by which more confidence may be had in the validity of election outcomes. It means that we, the people, can repose more trust in the outcome of elections than we could before. > > So that sounds like a great law. A law worth keeping. A law that people should protect, and be glad exists. Hey **Bricker** , you never answer this question, how come Republican states haven’t instituted a program to help the poor get IDs totally for free. Wouldn’t that increase representation in the polls, and therefore make the results more valid for all Americans? Also. Why not the e-verify system, which can establish citizenship, unless someone supplies a fake ID (which your system would miss anyway), without hardship for the poor? My guess is because you feel the poor shouldn’t vote, and you’re just a lying weasel. Otherwise you’d support making sure everyone has a voice. Btw, do you regret your support of Bush? Do you feel your support for him was a good thing, or do you have shame about that now? I ask because I’m wondering how sincere you are. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1023 "2012-07-07T15:24:20Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Hey **Bricker** , you never answer this question, how come Republican states haven’t instituted a program to help the poor get IDs totally for free. Every state that requires Voter ID offers IDs for free to the poor. > [@](#): > > Why not the e-verify system, which can establish citizenship, unless someone supplies a fake ID (which your system would miss anyway), without hardship for the poor? No, the E-Verify system verifies eligibility to work. My wife, a citizen of the Dominican Republic and ineligible to vote, passes E-Verify just fine, because she’s a permanent resident. > [@](#): > > Btw, do you regret your support of Bush? Do you feel your support for him was a good thing, or do you have shame about that now? I ask because I’m wondering how sincere you are. Isn’t this a bit of a hijack? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1024 "2012-07-07T15:49:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Who gets to decide what constitutes justice? > > See, I say that the spirit of justice is maintained when we assure that our elections are counted correctly. You say my solution violates justice; I say it maintains it. Who decides? > > See, that’s the question you keep dodging. When the legislature, the courts, and the majority of the people all favor Voter ID laws, what possible legitimate mechanism in a representative democracy can scuttle them? Well, I suppose dishonest argument might work. Like when you pretend that you believe that I am arguing against voter ID laws as such, when you know full well that I am arguing against the partisan application of such laws to favor Republicans. Of course, there is no actual Constitutional stipulation against dishonest argument, for that, we must depend upon the character and ethics of the advocate. In which we are often disappointed. As in this instance. Remember this: > [@](#): > > …I agree with you that the people pushing these reforms are doing so because they perceive political advantage in doing so. But I’m OK with that, because the reform is, independently, a good idea… For a bright, shining moment, swiftly gone, you actually recognized the core of my position. Of course, you immediately reached into the slop bucket for a big handful of _ad hominem_… > [@](#): > > …And don’t tell me that it bothers you. It only bothers you when it doesn’t advantage you… But still! A moment of honesty before you revert to form. We must cherish these moments, I suppose, since they are so rare. Lawya, please! (One of my better lines. I say “mine” because I have freely and openly stolen it. And that is one hundred percent legal, and Constitutional!) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1025 "2012-07-07T16:00:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Every state that requires Voter ID offers IDs for free to the poor… Well, yes, sorta kinda. For instance in Mississippi: > [@](#): > > …The law, signed by Gov. Phil Bryant (R) earlier this year but still pending federal approval, includes a measure allowing Mississipians to get free voter ID cards if they present a birth certificate. But Mississippi law also requires its residents to show valid photo identification in order to get a copy of their birth certificate. Most applicants for voter ID cards are presumed to be seeking them because they don’t have another acceptable form of photo ID. In other words, no birth certificate, no voter ID – but also no photo ID, no birth certificate… > **[State Voter ID Law Creates Puzzling Catch-22](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mississippi-voter-id-law_n_1653664)** > > State Voter ID Law Creates Puzzling Catch-22 Totally free! Can’t have it, but if you could have it, it would be free! So, yes, strictly speaking, and with the invaluable assistance of **Bricker** ’s Patented Zircon Encrusted Semantic Parsing Tweezers, one can certainly say that voter ID, when required, is free of charge! The Counselor triumphs again! ---
**Author:** ![Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mentor_and_Liar)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1026 "2012-07-07T16:04:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > …we will offer you one or several locations close your home…a post office, a bank, a Rainbow, a Cub Foods, a Piggly Wiggly… Oh now you’re just talkin’ dirty sweet to me son. They built me two Lund’s stores downtown and are working on a Whole Foods, but where’s my Piggly Wiggly? Y’all a Memphis boy? Something tells me you’ve not always been from around here. Actually, seriously, are you in the new 59b? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1027 "2012-07-07T16:06:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > > [@The Tao's Revenge](#): > > > > Btw, do you regret your support of Bush? Do you feel your support for him was a good thing, or do you have shame about that now? I ask because I’m wondering how sincere you are. > > Isn’t this a bit of a hijack? Perhaps, but it is akin to my observation earlier that you’re willing to either give up any integrity, or at least reveal that you have no integrity (or shame) in order to elect Romney. It’s kind of like questioning whether you are a $20 whore or a $5 whore, or really, if there is a lower bound. As long as it gets a Republican elected, it’s okay in Bricker’s book. I don’t even think you ever even cry in the shower afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1028 "2012-07-07T16:08:23Z")
> [@](#): > > …Actually, seriously, are you in the new 59b? I am a recovering Texan, currently residing in Richfield, MN. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1029 "2012-07-07T16:12:30Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, yes, sorta kinda. For instance in Mississippi: > > [Mississippi Voter ID Law Poses Catch-22 For Some Voters Who Don't Have Proper Identification | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/06/mississippi-voter-id-law_n_1653664.html) > > Totally free! Can’t have it, but if you could have it, it would be free! So, yes, strictly speaking, and with the invaluable assistance of **Bricker** ’s Patented Zircon Encrusted Semantic Parsing Tweezers, one can certainly say that voter ID, when required, is free of charge! > > The Counselor triumphs again! You just read your lefty sources and vomit the information back here. In [fact](http://www.sos.ms.gov/news_press_release.aspx?id=413), Mississippi has a program specifically designed to assist anyone caught in the Catch-22 you mention: > [@](#): > > Jackson, MS—If you need assistance obtaining a free Mississippi Voter ID card when the requirement is approved, the Secretary of State’s Office wants to hear from you. > > “Our Office is taking a proactive, rather than reactive, approach to the constitutional change,” says Secretary of State Delbert Hosemann. “We are hoping to find as many people as possible who need a voter ID while we are awaiting approval. We can then expedite the process for getting them the proper identification later.” > > “This requirement will allow individuals who may have been unable to afford, or has concerns about the voting process, a means for acquiring a form of identification in the free voter ID card,” says Secretary Hosemann. “This voter ID will help shorten the time to vote and ensure only you cast your ballot.” > > Over 62% of Mississippi voters approved a constitutional initiative in the November 2012 General Election requiring voters to show identification at the polls. The requirement must now be approved by either the Department of Justice or the federal courts. > > “If an individual does not have an acceptable form of identification, we encourage them to contact our Office,” adds Secretary Hosemann. “We want to ensure everyone who needs a voter ID receives one when the requirement is approved. By providing us their information early, they will go to the head of the line. We will also solicit free transportation to your county courthouse to anyone who needs transportation.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1030 "2012-07-07T16:14:40Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Perhaps, but it is akin to my observation earlier that you’re willing to either give up any integrity, or at least reveal that you have no integrity (or shame) in order to elect Romney. It’s kind of like questioning whether you are a $20 whore or a $5 whore, or really, if there is a lower bound. As long as it gets a Republican elected, it’s okay in Bricker’s book. I don’t even think you ever even cry in the shower afterwards. When you define a shameful activity as supporting any Republican, then you sort of win the debate before it starts, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1031 "2012-07-07T16:16:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > When you define a shameful activity as supporting any Republican, then you sort of win the debate before it starts, don’t you? Is there a difference, in your mind, between “supporting any Republican” and “doing anything to support Republicans”? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1032 "2012-07-07T16:18:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You just read your lefty sources and vomit the information back here… Oh? > **[State Facing Voter ID Hurdles](https://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2012/jul/05/state-facing-voter-id-hurdles/)** > > State officials are running into problems with the new voter-identification law even before the federal government has approved or rejected it. Link offered right there in the vomit, Counselor. ---
**Author:** ![Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mentor_and_Liar)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1033 "2012-07-07T16:26:23Z")
You could at least offer to hold his hair, counselor. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1034 "2012-07-07T17:21:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > See, I say that the spirit of justice is maintained when we assure that our elections are counted correctly. Still waiting for the massive campaign to reform vote casting and tabulation though. And considering it effects election counts a thousand times more than voter fraud no doubt we will see a thousand times the effort on this than on Photo ID Laws. Am I right or am I right? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1035 "2012-07-07T18:21:41Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Is there a difference, in your mind, between “supporting any Republican” and “doing anything to support Republicans”? Yes. But since the latter description doesn’t remotely describe me, I knew that’s not what you meant. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1036 "2012-07-07T18:22:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh? > > [State Facing Voter ID Hurdles | Jackson Free Press | Jackson, MS](http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2012/jul/05/state-facing-voter-id-hurdles/) > > Link offered right there in the vomit, Counselor. Reading the editorial positions taken by the paper, I don’t see anything to change my characterization. But in any event, the link I gave addresses the point you complained of. ---
**Author:** ![Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mentor_and_Liar)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1037 "2012-07-07T18:47:11Z")
No kidding! Free press indeed; dirty hippies probably advocate peaceable assembly and redress of grievances too. I read the first three editorials; stop the partisan brickering, wives are not property and brewing beer at home should be legalized. My delicate sensibilities prevent me from reading any further. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1038 "2012-07-07T19:40:56Z")
Negligible effect on the election indeed? [Not for 9% of Pennsylvanians.](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-06/pennsylvania-voter-id-law-may-bar-9-from-presidential-election.html) > [@](#): > > A comparison of registration lists and state Transportation Department records showed 758,939 people don’t have either a driver’s license or an alternative state ID, the secretary of the commonwealth said…A voter ID law in Texas has been blocked by the U.S. Justice Department, while in Florida, which also has a photo ID requirement, federal officials have sued to halt state attempts to bar non-citizens from voting. > … > State Representative Frank Dermody of Oakmont, the Democratic leader in the House, wrote to U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder July 2 asking him to block the statute. > … > Proponents of the law “have been unable to produce a scintilla of evidence that voter fraud – and particularly voter impersonation fraud – is a problem in Pennsylvania,” Dermody said in his letter to Holder. “We need your help to protect the most sacred right we have as American citizens – the right to vote.” [Meanwhile, in Florida](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/02/2879060/dont-repeat-past-voter-purge-mistakes.html): > [@](#): > > Florida initially claimed more than 180,000 potential non-citizens were registered, a suggestion Judge Robert Hinkle found was “plainly wrong.” The state narrowed that list — using unknown criteria — to approximately 2,700, which it described as a “sample” before sending the names to the supervisors of election in order to notify the listed voters they might be removed as ineligible noncitizens. In Miami-Dade County alone, nearly 500 individuals responded to the notification with proof they were actually citizens. > … > Florida should know better by now. In 2000, the state targeted for removal at least 12,000 eligible voters. The state used faulty matching criteria that could confuse the records of eligible voters with felons if 80 percent of their last names matched. > > In 2004, in an attempt to remove 48,000 registered voters from the rolls on the basis of felony conviction, the state wrongly identified thousands whose voting rights had been restored under Florida law, with a hugely disproportionate share being minorities. Is there any doubt remaining about either the effect or the motive of these efforts to undermine democracy itself? _Anyone_? :dubious: Guys, you’re wasting your time trying to convince \*\*Bricker \*\*out of a position he is holding despite all the evidence being to the contrary. You cannot convince a fundamentally dishonest partisan out of either dishonesty or partisanship, nor can you convince \*anyone \*to put country before party if he doesn’t know such a concept even _exists_. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1039 "2012-07-07T19:41:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. But since the latter description doesn’t remotely describe me, I knew that’s not what you meant. So, you’re not the crying in the shower kind then, as I anticipated. Lack of conscience will do that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1040 "2012-07-07T20:01:31Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > …Guys, you’re wasting your time trying to convince \*\*Bricker \*\*out of a position he is holding despite all the evidence being to the contrary. You cannot convince a fundamentally dishonest partisan out of either dishonesty or partisanship, nor can you convince \*anyone \*to put country before party if he doesn’t know such a concept even _exists_. For one thing, its good exercise, keep the aging synapses snappin’. Educated by Jesuits, trained as a lawyer, the boy has a whole array of shifty maneuvers. Plus, I find his brazen cynicism entertaining, especially when he dresses it up as idealism and purity. Now, that’s a _hoot_! Lot like **Scylla** , in many ways, except **Scylla** is in Opus Dei and **Bricker** …wait a tic, are you in Opus Dei, **Bricker**? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=53)