# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 525
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10481 "2017-04-27T19:19:15Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > I’m going to ask this again. Maybe you’ll answer this time. Did you really not know the answer to your question before you asked it? No. How would I know what answer another poster would give? I’m not a mind reader. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10482 "2017-04-27T19:19:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > He did it again. He provokes you guys into arguing about the validity of voter ID, as if that were the crux of the biscuit. For the one thousandth time, voter ID is not the question, the validity or the turpitude thereof. Using voter ID laws to stack the electoral deck is a crime against democracy, and should not be tolerated. He doesn’t like that, so he changes the subject. > > Its like we were arguing against hay fever, and the Counselor accuses of us of being anti-pollen, and firmly defends pollen as a necessary part of nature. Which is true, but isn’t the point. Some of you guys fall for it every time. Whatzamatta you? > > If the Republicans…excuse, “some” Republicans…who are advancing this dastardly scheme wanted to, there is nothing to stop them from issuing ID to every citizen and ensuring their easy access to it. It could easily be done as part of an outreach to non-registered citizens, to get more people on the voting rolls. Which party most consistently opposes any effort to expand the registered voter rolls? Here’s a hint, it starts with an “R”. > > “R”, me hearties! “R”! “R”! I have no problem with the idea of securing our elections against fraud. I don’t think it happens often, and I seriously doubt that it has ever swung an election, but as far as a “neutral value” or whatever term of art Bricker likes to use, it’s a perfectly acceptable motive to have. The problem, as has been discussed exhaustively in these threads is the implementation of voter ID, and how its implementation impacts (by accident or design, you decide!) the ability of eligible voters to cast their ballots. If all voter ID laws were exactly the way they were, even the ones that have been struck down or altered by the SC, but, you had an alternative option of leaving your fingerprint behind in order to cast a vote, then there really would be none of this talk of disenfranchisement. The motives of those proposing such measures would not be called into question. Of course, not having seen this being seriously proposed by nearly anyone (with the power to implement it), and not adopted by anyone at all (with the same caveat), when i is such a simple solution does call into question the motives of proponents of Voter ID. Now, as far as whether Bricker himself really believes in using fingerprints as ID, and really has advocated on their behalf, or if he is just using it as a smokescreen to hide his motives is not something I know, or even care to speculate about. For the purposes of the discussion, I have no problem taking people at their word. Politicians are a different beast. I start with a feeling of mistrust to their actions, and see where we go from there. Actions are all that are important in their realm, and so unless they actually implement a voter ID system that is all inclusive, then I must assume that their intent is to create a Voter ID system that excludes people. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10483 "2017-04-27T19:21:18Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > No. How would I know what answer another poster would give? I’m not a mind reader. There are two types of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10484 "2017-04-27T19:23:29Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > **elucidator** was complaining about changing the topic from using voter ID laws as back door voter suppression to the validity of the concept of voter ID laws. It’s pretty explicitly stated in the first paragraph of his post It seems to me that the topic changed to two people, who seem to have opposite views on a lot of things, agreeing that a fingerprint taken during the voting process would satisfy one’s thoughts on needing an ID while simultaneously satisfying another’s thoughts on the hardships associated with getting an ID. For some reason, this agreement seemed to have provoked \*\*elucidator’s \*\* spiel about voter suppression and electoral stacking. Since I really couldn’t see the connection between his outburst and the current status of this thread, I asked a follow up question. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10485 "2017-04-27T19:26:21Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > There are two types of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data Yes, and I extrapolated from his outburst that he is an idiot who can’t discuss something rationally. I simply asked him a question in order to disabuse myself of that notion and provide a way for him to show he’s not an idiot. I can extrapolate all day long. I’d rather receive clear answers from people. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10486 "2017-04-27T19:32:53Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > No. How would I know what answer another poster would give? I’m not a mind reader. I’m not a mind reader either. I did, however, read the first paragraph of his post. Since your such a fan of clear answers, can I trouble you to provide one. Are you for or against using voter ID laws as back door voter suppression? I’m against it. Without using mind reading, only ordinary reading, my operational hypothesis is that **elucidator** is also against it. Where do you stand? ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10487 "2017-04-27T19:33:36Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > So are you or are you not in favor of using a fingerprint while voting as the ID? I really don’t care what method or ID you use, but if the only state-approved fingerprint ink somehow doesn’t work on fingers with high melanin content, be prepared for a court challenge. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10488 "2017-04-27T19:45:53Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > I really don’t care what method or ID you use, but if the only state-approved fingerprint ink somehow doesn’t work on fingers with high melanin content, be prepared for a court challenge. You’re right! It also disenfranchises those people with NO HANDS! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10489 "2017-04-27T19:47:24Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > I’m not a mind reader either. I did, however, read the first paragraph of his post. > > Since your such a fan of clear answers, can I trouble you to provide one. Are you for or against using voter ID laws as back door voter suppression? > > I’m against it. Without using mind reading, only ordinary reading, my operational hypothesis is that **elucidator** is also against it. Where do you stand? I am against using voter ID laws as back door voter suppression. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10490 "2017-04-27T20:03:40Z")
Actually that was a trick question. I knew how you would answer it before I asked. Almost no one will state flat out that they are for using voter ID laws as back door voter suppression. Unfortunately, there are people in this world who are actually using voter ID as back door voter suppression. Those people are assholes and that is what this thread is about. Some other hypothetical law that is not back door voter suppression can be debated on its own merits, but that is not what this thread is about. Attempts to make this thread about other imaginary laws that do other imaginary things may be met with an outburst. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10491 "2017-04-27T20:09:36Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Some other hypothetical law that is not back door voter suppression can be debated on its own merits, but that is not what this thread is about I wasn’t aware that you or other posters were the “thread police” And I’m really astounded that if a thread becomes something else that you self-appointed “thread police” don’t think it should, it’s met with a written tantrum-like outburst on par with a 5 year old child. Also, I cannot be fooled by “trick questions” ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10492 "2017-04-27T20:22:34Z")
Gosh, **Lance** , I guess we’ve been told. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10493 "2017-04-27T20:23:13Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > You’re right! It also disenfranchises those people with NO HANDS! :eek: I’m pretty sure \*\*Drunky Smurf \*\*won’t appreciate you stealing his schtick. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10494 "2017-04-27T20:26:24Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I’m pretty sure \*\*Drunky Smurf \*\*won’t appreciate you stealing his schtick. I can’t be, I’m not even drunk yet. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10495 "2017-04-27T23:40:30Z")
Are you Blueish? You don’t _look_ Blueish. ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2017, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10496 "2017-04-28T01:45:04Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t think anyone on this board is a person in charge. > > You don’t need to be in charge to do this. Find one of the hundreds of thousands of people that exist without ID and give them the money and help they need in order to get an ID I give these guys $5 each month to do exactly that. [http://www.voteriders.org/](http://www.voteriders.org/) If all of you guys did the same, maybe more people would be able to vote. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2017, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10497 "2017-04-28T02:04:21Z")
And you attest and aver, on The Cecil and the Luminous Mods, that you’ve checked them out and they got boney fidos? Good enough for me, $5 it is. ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10498 "2017-04-28T02:32:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And you attest and aver, on The Cecil and the Luminous Mods, that you’ve checked them out and they got boney fidos? Good enough for me, $5 it is. I don’t know how to check any further, but I can say they have a website that looks like a fair amount of effort has been put into it, a Wikipedia article, a recommendation in a Huffington Post article, and nothing negative that I can find through a Google search. They list a hotline and a contact email for people who need IDs, and they list a bunch of partner organizations they say they work with, like the Brennan Center and Rockthevote. I started donating because I was angry about all of the kinds of voter suppression I keep hearing about, and this was one that maybe I could do something to thwart it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2017, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10499 "2017-04-28T03:11:28Z")
Sold. Chaps my hide to have to help solve a problem that ought not exist, but a man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do, whacka-do, whacka-do. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2017, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10500 "2017-04-28T13:43:43Z")
> [@eulalia](#): > > I give these guys $5 each month to do exactly that. [http://www.voteriders.org/](http://www.voteriders.org/) > > If all of you guys did the same, maybe more people would be able to vote. Thanks for posting this link. Seems like a worthy cause to donate money. Better than uselessly bitching about IDs on a message board anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=524) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=526)