# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 545
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10881 "2018-04-27T00:51:31Z")
“We may never know” doesn’t represent a rhetorical fallacy so much as a bare fact. The investigation was halted, for whatever reason. We may be forgiven for our suspicion that it was halted as a favor to the defendant. And for noting that if the defendant was entirely aware of his own innocence, he would most likely _want_ a thorough investigation. Be that as it may, when the words “Texas” and “justice” get thrown together in the same sentence, they usually try to squirm away from each other. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10882 "2018-06-11T16:10:58Z")
[Another example](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/ohio-wins-supreme-court-fight-over-voter-registration-n873226) of why it was so important for the Republicans to block Obama’s Supreme Court nomination: > [@](#): > > Supreme Court gives Ohio right to purge thousands of voters from its rolls > [@](#): > > Opponents of Ohio’s system, led by the A. Philip Randolph Institute, said it violated the National Voter Registration Act, which specifies that voters can be purged from the rolls only if they ask, move, are convicted of a felony, become mentally incapacitated, or die. More than half the voters in Ohio fail to cast a ballot over a two-year period, the group said, and those who receive the state’s notices simply throw them away. > > “The Supreme Court got this one wrong. The right to vote is not ‘use it or lose it,’” said Chris Carson, president of the League of Women Voters of the United States. “This decision will fuel the fire of voter suppressors across the country who want to make sure their chosen candidates win reelection, no matter what the voters say.” 5-4, and you know who. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10883 "2018-06-11T16:41:36Z")
If there’s one thing that Republicans fear, it is having lots of people eligible to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10884 "2018-06-11T17:10:25Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > If there’s one thing that Republicans fear, it is having lots of people eligible to vote. Republicans fear a country in which the plain text meaning of the law can get changed because a judge likes another result better. Thankfully, that fear was averted today. But the danger remains. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10885 "2018-06-11T17:44:15Z")
[The National Voter Registration Act of 1993](https://www.justice.gov/crt/title-42-public-health-and-welfare-chapter-20-elective-franchise-subchapter-i-h-national-voter#anchor_1973gg-6), Counselor: > [@](#): > > Sec. 1973gg-6 Requirements with respect to administration of voter registration > … > 3) provide that the name of a registrant may not be removed from the official list of eligible voters except - > > (A) at the request of the registrant; > > (B) as provided by State law, by reason of criminal conviction or mental incapacity; or > > (C) as provided under paragraph (4); > > (4) conduct a general program that makes a reasonable effort to remove the names of ineligible voters from the official lists of eligible voters by reason of - > > (A) the death of the registrant; or > > (B) a change in the residence of the registrant, in accordance with subsections (b), (c), and (d) of this section; > … > > Any State program or activity to protect the integrity of the electoral process by ensuring the maintenance of an accurate and current voter registration roll for elections for Federal office - > > (1) shall be uniform, nondiscriminatory, and in compliance with the Voting Rights Act of 1965 (42 U.S.C. 1973 et seq.); and > > (2) shall not result in the removal of the name of any person from the official list of voters registered to vote in an election for Federal office by reason of the person’s failure to vote, except that nothing in this paragraph may be construed to prohibit a State from using the procedures described in subsections (c) and (d) of this section to remove an individual from the official list of eligible voters if the individual - (A) has not either notified the applicable registrar (in person or in writing) or responded during the period described in subparagraph (B) to the notice sent by the applicable registrar; and then (B) has not voted or appeared to vote in 2 or more consecutive general elections for Federal office. IOW no. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10886 "2018-06-11T18:27:17Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [The National Voter Registration Act of 1993](https://www.justice.gov/crt/title-42-public-health-and-welfare-chapter-20-elective-franchise-subchapter-i-h-national-voter#anchor_1973gg-6), Counselor:IOW no. I think the decision says that the Ohio procedure follows the rules you quoted in the National Voter Registration Act exactly, hence it is acceptable. Whether that’s true or not, I can’t say. I’m not sure whether the problem is that Congress allowed for a procedure to remove voters from the rolls, or whether Ohio implemented it in an unfair way. What do the dissents say? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10887 "2018-06-11T18:37:40Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > …What do the dissents say? “Goddamn shit piss fuck!” but in polite legalese. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10888 "2018-06-11T18:40:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Republicans fear a country in which the plain text meaning of the law can get changed because a judge likes another result better. Yeah, ok. Because Republicans regularly bemoaned Scalia’s tortured reasonings to get the result he wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10889 "2018-06-11T23:22:56Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I think the decision says that the Ohio procedure follows the rules you quoted in the National Voter Registration Act exactly, hence it is acceptable. > > Whether that’s true or not, I can’t say. The Ohio procedures conformed precisely to the removal requirements listed in the NVRA. Read 52 USC §20507(d)(1)(B). Ohio removed voters who (1) didn’t vote for two years, which triggered (2) a card sent to their address, requiring them to verify their address, and (3) who subsequently failed to vote for four years after that. The law says (with red emphasis added by me): > [@](#): > > A State shall not remove the name of a registrant from the official list of eligible voters in elections for Federal office on the ground that the registrant has changed residence unless the registrant— > (A) confirms in writing that the registrant has changed residence to a place outside the registrar’s jurisdiction in which the registrant is registered; or > (B) > (i) has failed to respond to a notice described in paragraph (2); and > (ii) has not voted or appeared to vote (and, if necessary, correct the registrar’s record of the registrant’s address) in an election during the period beginning on the date of the notice and ending on the day after the date of the second general election for Federal office that occurs after the date of the notice. Can you explain how (or if) you believe Ohio’s scheme fails to meet that standard? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10890 "2018-06-12T01:54:49Z")
So, legal and Constitutional? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10891 "2018-06-12T13:07:49Z")
If someone is registered to vote, and they never vote, so what? There is no harm. The only reason to remove the name is to -fingers crossed- prevent that person voting should he try. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10892 "2018-06-12T13:37:22Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > If someone is registered to vote, and they never vote, so what? There is no harm. The only reason to remove the name is to -fingers crossed- prevent that person voting should he try. It pains me to say this but there are certainly legitimate reasons to attempt to keep the current rolls up to date; otherwise the number of voters who no longer live in the precinct (or have died) will rapidly outnumber the ones who do live there and vote, which can cause administrative problems and inefficiencies (although implications that it will lead to people voting in multiple areas do not appear to be justified in any material way). And the reason it pains me to say this is that the Republicans have made a habit of taking perfectly rational ideas regarding voting and applying them in a manner designed to skew heavily in a way that will disadvantage those likely to vote Democratic (e.g. requiring voter IDs but selecting as accepted IDs those which are far more likely to be held by GOP-voting demographics than Dem-voting ones, or closing ID-issuing centers in Democratic-leaning areas, or selecting for certain names more likely to belong to minority voters when conducting purges of ‘inactive’ voters and leaving others alone), all the while claiming that it’s all perfectly legal, Constitutional and innocent. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10893 "2018-06-12T14:11:08Z")
Good point. Then a just law would require the careful and deliberate removal of the names of dead people. Anything else is Republican sleaze. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10894 "2018-06-12T15:06:20Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Good point. Then a just law would require the careful and deliberate removal of the names of dead people. Anything else is Republican sleaze. Sort of. The law can be just and reasonable in itself, but applied in an inequitable and malign way. Many Jim Crow laws had this as a issue; for example, requiring people to be able to read (in order to read the ballot) sounds perfectly fine on the face of it\*, but deliberate unequal application of literacy testing was used to disenfranchise legitimate voters, up to and including making black voters read Chinese or fail the literacy assessment. - I know there are other objections to this, but this is for example only. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10895 "2018-06-12T15:47:58Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > …requiring voter IDs but selecting as accepted IDs those which are far more likely to be held by GOP-voting demographics than Dem-voting ones… Actually, they have accepted IDs that are issued by government institutions and have a higher degree of reliability than the IDs typically proposed by liberal activists, when they propose ID at all. If it’s true that these are more likely to be held by GOP-voting demographics, it’s because GOP-voting demographics are more likely participants in mainstream society tasks like licensed driving. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10896 "2018-06-12T15:52:20Z")
In a word, “white”. Its OK, you can just say it, everybody pretty much knows. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10897 "2018-06-12T15:59:04Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > In a word, “white”. Its OK, you can just say it, everybody pretty much knows. It’s nice of him to admit that the GOP are deliberately working to exclude marginalized populations, many of whom have been marginalized by conservatives in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10898 "2018-06-12T16:07:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Actually, they have accepted IDs that are issued by government institutions and have a higher degree of reliability than the IDs typically proposed by liberal activists, when they propose ID at all. If it’s true that these are more likely to be held by GOP-voting demographics, it’s because GOP-voting demographics are more likely participants in mainstream society tasks like licensed driving. True, and [owning guns, but not going to school.](https://progresstexas.org/blog/stricken-texas-voter-id-law-allowed-gun-licenses-not-student-id) ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10899 "2018-06-12T16:48:50Z")
Moved this discussion from a GD thread to avoid it becoming another Bricker nitpick fest. > [@Is it time for the dems to fight dirty?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-dems-to-fight-dirty/815907/36): > > > [@Is it time for the dems to fight dirty?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-time-for-the-dems-to-fight-dirty/815907/17): > > > > True, > > > > So Bricker, if following the model of the OP we wait until two Republican legistators “happen to get food poisoning” making them unable to vote, and then we pass a law in Virginia that says that all residents need to show ID in order to vote and the only ID we will accept is union cards student ID’s, and a state provided ID that is available at the Colonial Williamburg courthouse between the hours of 12:00 and 12:15. You see the legality of what we have done and go on your merry way? > > > > Or would you look to some activist judges to maybe take a look at it to see if its Kosher. > > > > Of course with the understanding that if we managed to pack the court with two additional judges who agreed our way then you’d admit you must have been wrong. > > Judges are not activist when they consider whether a law runs afoul of constitutional guarantees. > > Judges ARE activist if they create novel theories of what constitutional guarantees exist. > > In the example you offer, I believe that applying existing constitutional caselaw to the scheme you describe would result in striking down the law. > > I don’t agree that’s activist: a judge who did that would be applying existing case law, not creating new law, or new constitutional guarantees. Why? It was a democratically passed law which solved an important problem of preventing voter fraud. Now I suppose one might be able to argue that it may have unforeseen effects which would inconvenience certain voters, in a way that happens to provide electoral advantage to our side, but that shouldn’t matter as long as it has a rational basis. No one is being prevented from voting. I suppose you also could argue that there would be better ways of dealing with the issue of voter fraud that wouldn’t disenfranchise so many people, or be so one sided, but that wasn’t that law that was passed. Basically just the same as the Ohio law. So all we need are a couple of justices on the Supreme court who don’t have their judgment muddled by activist thinking and then you will have to admit that you were wrong and it wasn’t unconstitutional at all. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/10900 "2018-06-12T16:51:27Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It’s nice of him to admit that the GOP are deliberately working to exclude marginalized populations, many of whom have been marginalized by conservatives in the first place. Way, way back in the early pages, in a rare spasm of candor, he noted that “some” Republicans have malign motives in all this. He has his moments. But they are moments. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=544) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=546)