# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 74
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1461 "2012-07-20T21:53:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sauk City to Madison = State route 12. Speed limit = 65 mph. > > Well? How many stoplights? How many intersections? How much traffic is typical? How much of the trip is surface streets? What is the speed limit of those streets? Since we’re talking about buses, how many stops? I’ve never met anyone thinks 1 min per mile is a sane way to estimate time for a road trip. That’s a great way to vastly underestimate trip length and end up late. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1462 "2012-07-20T21:54:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Sounds to me like you’re not smart enough to vote. Probably true. Just barely smart enough to kick your sorry ass for thirty pages. Which, admittedly, don’t take much. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1463 "2012-07-20T21:55:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Still, you know, and I know, that in this day and age, in this country, it’s very customary to refer to distances as such-and-so minutes away, with one mile equal to one minute. > > If you were a fool, a poltroon, or a snake intent on raising irrelevant objections, then you might not admit to this convention. In which case I’ll just say I averaged the slower bus time with the faster SR-71 Blackbird time to get 20 minutes. So, being the poltroonish snake I am, I’m going to insist we not postulate that an applicant would travel between Sauk City and Madison in two legs, first by ground vehicle and then by retired military spy plane, and thus the common convention of 1 minute per 1 mile is an inappropriate one when used to describe travel time for the actual modes of transportation available to said applicant via the actual byways between the two rough geographical locations. > [@](#): > > Now, what’s deceptive about [the Brennan Center] claim? Again, a fool, poltroon, or snake might act puzzled at the thought that there’s deception afoot. > > But any normal, ordinary person reading that claim would first reach the conclusion that Sauk City residents had no real options except to wait for a fifth Wednesday. Imma let you finish, but first I gotta say that Sauk City residents are the mostest aware of other cities people in history! So no, I must firmly disagree that a normal, ordinary person would assume Sauk City residents are unaware of alternative facilities. > [@](#): > > If we were to survey a hundred regular people, give them that paragraph, and then ask what implications were made, or ask them if they’d be surprised to discover that an ID office existed a mere 20 miles away, they would… In my experience most people who are dependent on other drivers and/or public transportation aren’t so sanguine about “a mere 20 miles”, and those who can’t or won’t imagine what such dependence is like aren’t really great spokespersons for the hypothetical “reasonable opinion” on this. I further expect that any reasonable opinion-formers would take away from the paragraph the impression that Sauk City residents don’t actually have a viable option in their own neighborhood and will have to go elsewhere to get their ID, entailing the kind of time off from work and transportation expense we’ve been citing throughout this thread. In other words, that this is an appreciable hurdle in the process of participatory democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1464 "2012-07-20T21:56:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sounds to me like you’re not smart enough to vote. Then by all means, try to push a law through to keep him from voting. As is your wont. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1465 "2012-07-20T22:09:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sounds to me like you’re not smart enough to vote. Well, that doesn’t say anything nice about _your_ right to vote either. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1466 "2012-07-20T22:09:44Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I still find it interesting that people still keep bringing this talking point up, even though poll after poll shows that Americans, while self-identifying as “conservatives”, take the liberal side in almost all the crucial issues in a very extreme way. No, not even a nice try. We did the political compass threads here, which breaks out issue by issue, and the board averaged much more left than the general public. Sorry, Pauline Kael. > [@](#): > > > [@Bricker](#): > > > > Yep. You and your nutso pals are welcome to proclaim your disturbance all you want. As long as the actual laws remain in place, I am content. > > BUT YOU JUST FUCKING ADMITTED THAT THEY WERE INTENDED TO MAKE THINGS WORSE! The intention behind them is irrelevant. If a law is supported by valid neutral justifications, those justifications cannot be disregarded simply because partisan interests may have provided one motivation for the votes of individual legislators. > [@](#): > > Except that they didn’t. If you are poor and lack a driver’s license, how are you going to get from Sauk City to Madison? Got a bus line? How long does that take, what does it cost? Can you walk 20 miles in a day? Can you walk 20 miles _at all_? No one has to walk. There’s a bus line, and there’s a local ID office open one day most months. That’s sufficient. > [@](#): > > Is there a bus? What does it cost? How long does it take? How long would it reasonably take a Sauk City resident to get from there to the Madison DMV and get their ID if they have no driver’s license? All day? _Several_ days? Not even a day. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1467 "2012-07-20T22:10:46Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > And this is exactly the kind of thing that makes debate with you so frustrating. “…might take longer” hmmm, _might_ take longer, huh? _might_ take **longer**? _ **might** take longer_? Ya think? Without motorized transport the trip might take longer? Care to casually minimize it any further? Then offer extreme exaggerations of causes for some delay, as if anyone offered them as objections. > > Best case alternative, a bus passes my house and some time (almost certainly in excess of 20 minutes) passes the needed destination. More likely case is some bus runs within walking distance of my house, maybe a block, perhaps half a mile, and the same bus runs to some similar distance from the needed destination. Most likely case is some bus runs somewhere within walking distance of me, then goes to some central depot where, after an interminable wait, I can transfer to a different bus that eventually runs within walking distance of that destination. Return trip is similar. Total expenditure of time and effort rather different than “one mile equal to one minute”. And you characterize this as “…might take longer”. Ok. WILL take longer. And? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1468 "2012-07-20T22:12:24Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Well, that doesn’t say anything nice about _your_ right to vote either. I am smart enough to have a photo ID. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1469 "2012-07-20T22:13:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I am smart enough to have a photo ID. And yet quite clearly a functional retard. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1470 "2012-07-20T22:15:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Probably true. Just barely smart enough to kick your sorry ass for thirty pages. Which, admittedly, don’t take much. The Dunning-Kroger Effect in action. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1471 "2012-07-20T22:16:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I am smart enough to have a photo ID. What does that have to do with the high-speed capabilities of 'Luci’s bicycle? Keep fuckin’ that chicken, Bricker. KFTC. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1472 "2012-07-20T22:17:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The Dunning-Kroger Effect in action. Is that your new signature? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1473 "2012-07-20T22:19:00Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > And yet quite clearly a functional retard. A voting citizen with a photo ID, whose desired policies are in effect even as we speak. Pretty good for a functional retard. And do you represent the intelligentsia? Smugly convinced of your superior position, and all your clustered buddies agree with you… except for the fact that your desired policy is NOT in effect. You know what? I’m okay with this. You can be the brilliant one, and I will be the functional retard. I’ll even undertake drooling once in a while. Just as long as my desired laws stay in effect. That’s a trade I am thrilled to make. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1474 "2012-07-20T22:22:13Z")
If Tom Paine were alive, he’d kick you in the nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1475 "2012-07-20T22:25:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A voting citizen with a photo ID, whose desired policies are in effect even as we speak. Pretty good for a functional retard. You aren’t a retard. You’re just amoral and a terrible person. Your parents failed utterly to craft a decent person in you. I hope it was just a fluke of genetics and not a shitty job on their part. > [@](#): > > And do you represent the intelligentsia? Smugly convinced of your superior position, and all your clustered buddies agree with you… except for the fact that your desired policy is NOT in effect. I don’t think you understand the concept of _smug_. > [@](#): > > You know what? I’m okay with this. You can be the brilliant one, and I will be the functional retard. I’ll even undertake drooling once in a while. > > Just as long as my desired laws stay in effect. That’s a trade I am thrilled to make. If raping your children was suddenly legal, it wouldn’t be something good people would be thrilled about. _Currently legal_ and \*right \*should overlap, but sometimes evil men get in power and push laws that aren’t right. And sometimes, craven lickspittles like you cheer them for it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1476 "2012-07-20T22:27:45Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If Tom Paine were alive, he’d kick you in the nuts. If Ben Franklin were alive he’d cuff Bricker in the head with his cane and seduce his wife by knotting a thick calf under his leggings. Oh, I declare… I must take the air… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1477 "2012-07-20T23:01:41Z")
Still, such unabashed and crystalline cynicism is refreshing, in a cold and morbid sort of way. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1478 "2012-07-20T23:08:24Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > _Currently legal_ and \*right \*should overlap, but sometimes evil men get in power and push laws that aren’t right. I imagine that happens sometimes, but not this time. This time, legal and right are neatly in sync. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1479 "2012-07-20T23:14:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If Tom Paine were alive, he’d kick you in the nuts. No. Paine is probably the best advocate for your side among the Founding Fathers, and even he would agree that Voter ID in this circumstance is wise. He would take me to task for crowing about the law as evidence of what’s right, though. What do I care? Fuck him. Fuck his agrarian justice, too. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1480 "2012-07-20T23:55:59Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > If Ben Franklin were alive he’d cuff Bricker in the head with his cane and seduce his wife by knotting a thick calf under his leggings. > > Oh, I declare… I must take the air… If Ben Franklin were alive he would start up a privatized ID business, get it approved by the various States, and make a killing. In the last Presidential election, $15 per vote was spent I believe. It would be an even better investment to spend money on getting all of those supposedly solid Democratic voters some ID and to the polls. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=73) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=75)