# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 95
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1881 "2012-07-27T00:52:40Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I don’t necessarily disagree with anything you’re saying here, but… what does this mean as far as how we should actually react to the issue at hand? Throw up our hands and say “ah, well, people are corrupt, life sucks”? Accept that it’s within the rules of the game, and attempt to use it to benefit your side as much as you can. That is, assist people with getting ID, and pointing out that the Republicans are trying to deny them the vote. Probably don’t do those two things at the same time, as it could be seen as a conflict of interest. In other words, play the game according to what the rules actually are, not what you think they should be. Then, if your side gets elected, change the rules to whatever you consider fair. TL;DR version - stop being such a bunch of whingers. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1882 "2012-07-27T01:01:36Z")
ITT: A bunch of fucking morons. Voter fraud is virtually non-existent. People without ID is not. How is this difficult? Even if we could create a program to ensure that everyone could get ID easily, would it be worth the money? For all 0 alleged cases of federal voter fraud in Pennsylvania? For all 4 in Texas? For all 4 in Ohio? YEP, SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT WAY TO SPEND A FEW MILLION DOLLARS! Jeez, and I thought _you guys_ were supposed to be the fucking conservatives. You are all evil. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1883 "2012-07-27T01:11:14Z")
I would have to wonder why left wingers haven’t _already_ set up programs to help people get ID, if it’s that common not to have it, and that hard to get hold of. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1884 "2012-07-27T01:12:04Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > You are all evil. Be fair. Some of them are stupid. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1885 "2012-07-27T01:29:40Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I would have to wonder why left wingers haven’t _already_ set up programs to help people get ID, if it’s that common not to have it, and that hard to get hold of. Such efforts exist, and [expert guidance](http://www.demos.org/sites/default/files/publications/Got%20ID%20Final%202012%20Apr%2016.pdf) on setting up such programs also exists. The major problem not faced by similar voter registration drives and GOTV efforts is one of logistics and expense; it’s harder to get people to the appropriate issuing facilities than it is to get them to polls, there are more government agencies which must typically be coordinated with, and a greater geographical range of travel which must be dealt with, both for volunteers and for the people they’re helping. The effort and cost involved dwarf anything experienced in a typical registration drive. That money must come from somewhere, and that time investment must come not just from the aspiring voters and the volunteers, but from the involved agencies, departments and facilities, both governmental (soc. security offices, vital records facilities, DMV offices) and nongovernmental (hospitals, employers). ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1886 "2012-07-27T02:07:48Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Even if we could create a program to ensure that everyone could get ID easily, would it be worth the money? Yes. Otherwise, why does the everyone else do it? And have higher voter turnouts as well. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1887 "2012-07-27T02:50:33Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I would have to wonder why left wingers haven’t _already_ set up programs to help people get ID, if it’s that common not to have it, and that hard to get hold of. Well, it would be an interesting idea. I wonder how many GOP-run state legislatures would support the bill. Especially seeing as they’re the ones offering the ID laws in the first place. You’d think it’d kinda be _their responsibility_ to ensure that people get ID. But of course, this isn’t about preventing voter fraud. Never was, never has been, and if you think it ever was, you are a fucking moron. Or are you like Uzi, and think that the DNC should pay the tens of millions of dollars necessary for such programs out of pocket (thus making you, also like Uzi, legally retarded)? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1888 "2012-07-27T02:52:12Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Yes. Otherwise, why does the everyone else do it? And have higher voter turnouts as well. EVERYONE ELSE DOES IT IS A FUCKING TERRIBLE EXCUSE! No, I want a _real_ reason. Not faffing about because “everyone else does it”. Everyone else has a fucking working electoral system, with candidates that are worth caring about and a government that isn’t completely bumfucked. Try again, shitstain. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1889 "2012-07-27T03:02:39Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > EVERYONE ELSE DOES IT IS A FUCKING TERRIBLE EXCUSE! Wah! Wah! Baby wants a bottle! Wah! No, a terrible excuse is not having an approved ID to vote with when you have months, if not years to comply. And I didn’t say everyone else does it, I asked why does everyone else do it. > [@](#): > > Everyone else has a fucking working electoral system, Fix it, quit whinging about it. > [@](#): > > with candidates that are worth caring about Fix it, quit whinging about it. > [@](#): > > and a government that isn’t completely bumfucked. Fix it, quit whinging about it. > [@](#): > > Try again, shitstain. Nah, it is much more fun to laugh and point at someone who is going to have a coronary over something so minor, when the major things you just indicated above are far more important to voter participation than a few people not capable or willing to get an ID. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1890 "2012-07-27T03:17:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Quite forgot I meant to answer this. Yes, “disenfranchise” has a very specific meaning, and if you intend to bricker it by sheltering in semantic precision, that is your right. > > But if the question isn’t actual disenfranchisement, if it is simply a matter of hindering a certain class of voters for a partisan benefit, does that somehow become legitimate, simply because it doesn’t actually forbid anyone to vote? > > For myself, using the power of the legislature to promote and ensure one party’s electoral success is disgusting and literally un-American. It ought not even be contemplated by men of integrity, much less acted upon. If the Republicans cannot win without stooping to such, they should not win. I don’t believe you. If you really felt that way, you would have offered a much more scathing indictment when Massachusetts passed its switcheroo laws about appointment of senators to vacant seats. The best you could do was a weak comment about how the Emocrats did something bad because the GOP made them do it. Your high-minded principles simply don’t exist when the ones gaining the advantages are Democrats. No bullshit – b e honest. It didn’t really bother you when Massachusetts did that, did it? Look at all the vitriol you’ve heaped on the GOP and look at the short comment you made about Massachusetts. Come on. Tell the truth. Please. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1891 "2012-07-27T08:22:20Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Well, it would be an interesting idea. I wonder how many GOP-run state legislatures would support the bill. Especially seeing as they’re the ones offering the ID laws in the first place. You’d think it’d kinda be _their responsibility_ to ensure that people get ID. But of course, this isn’t about preventing voter fraud. Never was, never has been, and if you think it ever was, you are a fucking moron. Or are you like Uzi, and think that the DNC should pay the tens of millions of dollars necessary for such programs out of pocket (thus making you, also like Uzi, legally retarded)? No, it’s their responsibility to make sure everyone has access to ID. Which they are legally required to do, and have done. If you are of the opinion that someone having to pay for a bus to the other side of the city is an intolerable burden for them, then yes, you should pay for it. You certainly shouldn’t expect everyone else to. Ignoring the question of needing ID to vote, answer my original question. If 10% of people, mostly poor and minorities, are unable to get hold of ID at a reasonable cost, why hasn’t the left _already_ been helping them to get it? It wouldn’t require legislation, just people putting their money where their mouth is. Oh, wait, I’ve just answered my own question. You want everyone else to pay for the principles you claim to support. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1892 "2012-07-27T08:42:38Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > You’d think it’d kinda be _their responsibility_ to ensure that people get ID. It has already been mentioned that the Democrats put forward a plan for universal ID’s some time ago. Why did they think this was important then? So, we have everyone else on the planet and the Democrats thinking this is a good idea, but now, when it is an actual requirement, you are against it. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1893 "2012-07-27T09:01:05Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Ignoring the question of needing ID to vote, answer my original question. If 10% of people, mostly poor and minorities, are unable to get hold of ID at a reasonable cost, why hasn’t the left _already_ been helping them to get it? It wouldn’t require legislation, just people putting their money where their mouth is. I think there are several answers to that: (1) the left HAS been helping them. You can bet your ass that any time there have been proposals put forward to keep DMVs open longer, streamline ID-getting processes, etc., it’s been the left that has primarily supported them (2) without elections being involved, it’s much less important (3) the left has been busy with plenty of other issues (4) people are lazy > [@](#): > > Oh, wait, I’ve just answered my own question. You want everyone else to pay for the principles you claim to support. Well, kind of. In the sense that we (generally) support universal healthcare, and want everyone to pay for it. I’ve met very few leftists whose position is “there should be universal healthcare, and everyone should be taxed to pay for it, oh, except for me, no taxes for me”. Seriously, though, that’s a pretty ridiculous assertion. Do you think leftists are never socially or politically active? Never give time or money to support causes that are important to them? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1894 "2012-07-27T09:05:35Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > (4) people are lazy :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1895 "2012-07-27T09:41:13Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Seriously, though, that’s a pretty ridiculous assertion. Do you think leftists are never socially or politically active? Never give time or money to support causes that are important to them? I think leftists _think_ they are more politically active than other people, and think they give more time and money to causes they believe in, and that they are wrong on both counts. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1896 "2012-07-27T10:30:25Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > No, it’s their responsibility to make sure everyone has access to ID. Which they are legally required to do, and have done. Really? So if I live 50 miles from the nearest DMV in an area with shitty or no public transit, the government will give me a ride? > [@](#): > > If you are of the opinion that someone having to pay for a bus to the other side of the city is an intolerable burden for them, then yes, you should pay for it. You certainly shouldn’t expect everyone else to. What bus? Seriously, what fucking bus? > [@](#): > > Ignoring the question of needing ID to vote, answer my original question. If 10% of people, mostly poor and minorities, are unable to get hold of ID at a reasonable cost, why hasn’t the left _already_ been helping them to get it? It wouldn’t require legislation, just people putting their money where their mouth is. Oh, wait, I’ve just answered my own question. You want everyone else to pay for the principles you claim to support. It’s ridiculously expensive, and not something you could reasonably support with the party’s own funding. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1897 "2012-07-27T15:22:28Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I think leftists _think_ they are more politically active than other people, and think they give more time and money to causes they believe in, and that they are wrong on both counts. Where did the “more” come from? I didn’t say we were MORE active, I was responding to your implication that we never do anything other than try to make people pay for our pet programs. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1898 "2012-07-27T15:25:44Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > :rolleyes: Actually, I think this is an important point. I mean, it shouldn’t need to be. But fairly often on this board and in other contexts, conversations turn to come-and-see-the-liberal-hypocrisy, often in the form of “well, if you REALLY believed X, as you claim to, then you would be doing Y. You’re not doing Y, therefore you don’t really believe X”. But that’s ridiculous, because PEOPLE ARE LAZY. I really honestly believe, deep in my heart, that it’s very important to help poor and disadvantaged people get registered to vote. But you know what I’m doing after work today? I’m getting takeout dinner and my wife and I are watching the Olympic opening ceremonies. Geez, I sure am a lying hypocrite for pretending to believe in helping people when I clearly don’t! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1899 "2012-07-27T15:58:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t believe you… Tell the truth. Please. And its time to change the subject. From the issue at hand to **'luc’s** hypocrisy and partisan inclinations. So, its come to this, then? This is all you got? I haven’t said anything that might not have come from the mouth of a centrist, if such a rare creature even exists any more Or an honest conservative, for that matter. Tell you what, sport. I tell a lie, you nail it. Shouldn’t be that hard, smart guy like you. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1900 "2012-07-27T16:17:38Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > …Ignoring the question of needing ID to vote, answer my original question. If 10% of people, mostly poor and minorities, are unable to get hold of ID at a reasonable cost, why hasn’t the left _already_ been helping them to get it?.. They did. It was called ACORN. The Republicans murdered ACORN. ACORN had been doing their thing for years, and nobody paid the least attention. Even many of us on the left regarded them with benign disdain, including myself. What, a few thousand registered voters, here and there, what kind of program is that? An effective program, it turns out. As the races got tighter and tighter, as Republican demographics got shakier and shakier, the few thousand here and there began to be a threat. So they killed it. Who the fuck is going to slog door to door, registering maybe ten new voters on a really good day? I’ve met these people, know them. So sincere they make my teeth hurt, so earnest they make me want to drink. Doing the grunt work. The hard, nasty work that message board smartasses like me won’t do. Did you notice how quickly the Republicans acted on that front? How in Texas and Florida (and others?) they moved with lightning speed to make it more difficult for third parties to conduct voter registration, how they stifled the Trotskyist machinations of the League of Women Voters? Have you ever asked yourself that one simple question: why doesn’t the Republcian Party enthusiastically support new voter registration, if they sincerely believe that most Americans are on their side? Because they don’t believe that, the facts don’t support that. If, by some miracle, every eligible citizen in America were registered to vote tomorrow, would that be good for the Republican Party. They don’t seem to think so. What do you think? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=94) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=96)