# I Pit the ID-demanding GOP vote-suppressors (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943 "2012-06-12T19:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 97
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1921 "2012-07-28T18:27:01Z")
How tragic it is that nobody on this board, and probably in real life either, is of evolved enough a species to be able to recognize your superior perception and insight and reasoning ability. The constant pain of that knowledge must be unbearable. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1922 "2012-07-28T18:30:23Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Wait—this was the reason _you_ stated: Which side YOU’RE ON doesn’t matter. Remove the labels and just look at the resource requirements of the law. > [@](#): > > One side being disproportionality affected is at the heart of that statement. And I explained the basis for that, i.e. resources required affecting low resource voters. I note you choose not to define what you’d accept as evidence. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1923 "2012-07-28T18:33:24Z")
Of course! Why didn’t anybody think of that except for the brilliant and innovative thinker, **Mags**! The Pubbies are doing all of this strictly from a sense of civic virtue, they are entirely innocent of partisan motivation. Why, it never _occurred_ to them that this would result in any partisan advantage. And if it was somehow pointed out to them that this would result in a disadvantage to white Republican voters, they would have gone right ahead anyway, because partisan advantage was not even remotely a concern of theirs! This is my official royal opinion, in my capacity as Queen of Romania. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1924 "2012-07-28T18:44:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [More on the general topic](http://www.salon.com/2012/07/27/fla_republican_we_suppressed_black_votes/), from the former chairman of the Florida GOP:Who here remains surprised? The guy is in trouble for several different kinds of corruption. Just because a liar tells you something you don’t expect him to, doesn’t mean he’s telling you the truth. And, unless I’m very much mistaken, he is relating nothing more substantial than an anecdote. Granted, I think what he’s saying is quite probably true, but his saying it adds nothing to the evidence already before us. It could be nothing more than bitterness and spite. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1925 "2012-07-28T18:53:24Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > Which side YOU’RE ON doesn’t matter. Remove the labels and just look at the resource requirements of the law. Huh? YOU are the one who claimed that it had to do with the votes of one side being depressed disproportionally. (see below) > [@AlienVessels](#): > > And I explained the basis for that, i.e. resources required affecting low resource voters. No, you did not. But maybe I missed it. If so, can you point to the explanation for you bringing up: (emphasis mine) [QUOTE=AlienVessels] Seriously? If that increase requires that voters **on your side** are disproportionately suppressed and most likely in VASTLY more numbers than fraudulent votes, how could any reasonable person examining both sides NOT lose confidence in the process? [/QUOTE] That’s the reason _you_ provided. Are you changing your view? Something else? [QUOTE=AlienVessels] I note you choose not to define what you’d accept as evidence. [/QUOTE] Because I don’t know what evidence you seem to be offering to deliver. I’m not following you here. Probably because you haven’t answered the questions I’ve asked. You seem to willing to generate evidence for \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. Can you clarify? But first, it would help if we could clear up what your position is. We then may or may not need evidence. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1926 "2012-07-28T18:55:58Z")
> [@IntelliQ](#): > > There is no such thing as “too hard or too far” Register for the presidential election several counties away from where you live and attempt to get public transport there, please. > [@Uzi](#): > > My experience being ‘poor’ when I was younger was that the poor always had enough money for smokes and booze. Ever read the Road to Wigan Pier? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1927 "2012-07-28T18:58:22Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Register for the presidential election several counties away from where you live and attempt to get public transport there, please. Why would someone do that? If they were registered in one county and then moved to another, or another state, they register in their new home county. What’s the big deal? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1928 "2012-07-28T19:06:45Z")
So, they’re making it all up then? They are protesting these laws even though it won’t have any effect on them? Got nothing better to do, is that it? The ACLU,which simply teems with lawyers, they are spending their money on this in Pennsylvania 'cause, what the heck, they are rolling in bucks anyway. And that woman who they are offering as the test case, she’s lying? Same in Florida and Texas, nothing to see here, move along? In the interests of bi-partisan neutrality, I promise to give this suggestion all of the consideration it is due. Ah. There. Done. Anything else? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1929 "2012-07-28T19:07:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Granted, I think what he’s saying is quite probably true, but his saying it adds nothing to the evidence already before us. It could be nothing more than bitterness and spite. OK, true, it \*could \*be that the people the GOP chooses for its leadership are merely corrupt and mendacious, not actually antidemocratic. That’s a fair point, if not entirely a supportive one. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1930 "2012-07-28T19:11:28Z")
Well, he is sort of implying that it was those _other_ guys, not him, and he was shocked shocked. Just a virgin who suddenly realized he was surrounded by sluts. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1931 "2012-07-28T21:56:52Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > That assumes a desire to do it in the first place. I’m sure it will effect some in the way that you fear. But it seems self evident to me that reminding people that the ability to vote is so important that we protect the sanctity of the vote would encourage some people to vote who qualify and may have beeb apathetic in the past. Though we’re both guessing. You’re suggesting that because the vote will be marginally more secure, that more people will vote who wouldn’t have voted before? And you think that will outnumber those who just throw up their hands? That’s an interesting position. I don’t see a way to prove this supposition incorrect other than pointing out the studies previously cited on voter confidence not being increased by voter ID seems to indicate that, in general, if people feel their vote doesn’t matter, or isn’t secure, that ID won’t change their mind. > [@magellan01](#): > > I looked quickly and didn’t see it. It wasn’t in the Rolling Stone cite. Did I miss it? But I don’t get how increasing the likelihood that one’s vote won’t be subverted by an illegal vote could possibly _lessen_ confidence in the act of voting. I summarized them in [post 272](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15170550#post15170550). > [@magellan01](#): > > If you agree that it makes voting more important, isn’t it possible that m ore people who qualify might want to be involved in this important endeavor? That’s the rub. Their only more important IF more people don’t get involved 😉 In general, I don’t think people think this way. They either vote because they feel it’s their civic duty or because they feel it’s important to elect the persons they feel will govern best. But not because they’re vote is more valuable. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1932 "2012-07-28T23:10:16Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > How would it encourage voter apathy? Seems like it would make one’s vote more important, not less, it it would increase the confidence that one’s found won’t be undone by a vote illegally cast. > > So, where would the increased apathy come form? This really shouldn’t be difficult, but I’ll explain it anyways for you, you thick fuck. 10% of the country’s voting populace is going to be told “if you want to vote, you have to go stand in line at the DMV”. What percentage of those people do you think will say “ah, fuck it, my vote doesn’t matter anyways, and I hate both candidates”. And if the problem is “I’m scared that illegals will undo my vote”, then you know what the solution is? _EDUCATION!_ Because that is a lie made out of whole cloth by republican shitbags like _YOU!_ Jesus christ, there is no way you are actually that stupid. Is there? ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1933 "2012-07-28T23:12:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Of course! Why didn’t anybody think of that except for the brilliant and innovative thinker, **Mags**! The Pubbies are doing all of this strictly from a sense of civic virtue, they are entirely innocent of partisan motivation. Why, it never _occurred_ to them that this would result in any partisan advantage. And if it was somehow pointed out to them that this would result in a disadvantage to white Republican voters, they would have gone right ahead anyway, because partisan advantage was not even remotely a concern of theirs! It would sure be refreshing to have one of our wingnuts, just one, have the cojones to admit the real reason behind a law of policy that they are championing, not these wishy-washy pseudo-reasons which they don’t actually personally believe for a microsecond. Well actually, there’s the **Bricker’s** of this world (who are intelligent enough-enough-to be fully cognizant that it is all a bunch of obtusfucating propaganda, tho they still lack the moral fiber to recognize the wrongness involved and the damage said policies does to our nation and world), but there are also the **magellan’s** of this world too (who are in fact too stupid to realize that they are being duped and truly do believe the bullshit reason, blissfully unaware of the real reason). Still would be refreshing tho: “YES! I ADMIT IT! All those GOP governors signed these laws to screw over Democrat-leaning voting blocs-and I’m completely glad for it! The quicker we can get that n\*\*\*\*\* out of the White House, the better! Screw due process and for that matter screw any sense of fair play! This is a power play pure and simple!” ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1934 "2012-07-28T23:55:10Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Jesus christ, there is no way you are actually that stupid. Is there? Yes. Yes there is. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1935 "2012-07-29T00:07:42Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Well actually, there’s the **Bricker’s** of this world (who are intelligent enough-enough-to be fully cognizant that it is all a bunch of obtusfucating propaganda, tho they still lack the moral fiber to recognize the wrongness involved and the damage said policies does to our nation and world) That fact genuinely makes me sad, what with the “winning!” quotes. I only saw them being quoted, so I don’t know the full context, IYKWIMAITYD, but it’s genuinely sad that there are those that know that the main purpose of the disenfranchisement is to help one party _and are completely okay with it_. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1936 "2012-07-29T01:10:19Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > What percentage of those people do you think will say “ah, fuck it, my vote doesn’t matter anyways, and I hate both candidates”. I’ve already posted a link that the primary reason people don’t vote is because they don’t like either candidate. IIRC, more Republicans have this an excuse. Imagine if they had a likable candidate. The left would be screwed. 2nd reason is because they are too busy. Lack of ID will be way down the list as a valid reason\*. \*The excuse they’ll give to the pollster rather than admit that they couldn’t be bothered to vote. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1937 "2012-07-29T01:11:15Z")
> [@](#): > > …but it’s genuinely sad that there are those that know that the main purpose of the disenfranchisement is to help one party and are completely okay with it. Well, he did walk that back some, more or less admitting that _some_ Republicans are infected with the _realpolitik_ virus, or that this motivation paid _some_ role. I, for one, would actually be pleased and heartened to hear of a Republican in Texas or Florida raise an objection. And there _were_ those Republican election officials in Florida who told the Governor where he could stick his voter purge. (If you hadn’t heard about it, the “purge” means removing names from the list, no one is getting shot, or anything. Leastwise, not yet…) Still, let it be knouted for the record that his level of candor quite exceeded the standard for Republican veracity. Counts for something. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1938 "2012-07-29T01:20:40Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > It would sure be refreshing to have one of our wingnuts, just one, have the cojones to admit the real reason behind a law of policy that they are championing, not these wishy-washy pseudo-reasons which they don’t actually personally believe for a microsecond. Well, if I’m included in this missive, then I’ve already admitted that is the case. It isn’t relevant, though. The laws make sense, not the least of which that almost every other country does so and that most people want them. Regardless whether ID laws actually stop fraud, most people think they do. Most people want to know their vote counts. This is why most people want them. Gah, sometimes you have to throw a bone to people if you want them to play your game. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1939 "2012-07-29T01:30:36Z")
I’ll try to break this down for you again, **Uzi.** Not about the validity or even the desirability of voter id. No matter how many times you defend it, it isnt the point. The point is using such validity as a veil to drape over political machinations. It would be as if the cops pulled over anyone they thought was a Democrat on election day and kept them from getting to the polls. You can defend the value of speed limit laws all day long, and you still haven’t said anything worth hearing. So, next time, think it over carefully, and then don’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943/1940 "2012-07-29T01:48:11Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > No matter how many times you defend it, it isnt the point. The point is using such validity as a veil to drape over political machinations. Why are you responding to something as if I didn’t just acknowledge that it is true? > [@](#): > > It would be as if the cops pulled over anyone they thought was a Democrat on election day and kept them from getting to the polls. You can defend the value of speed limit laws all day long, and you still haven’t said anything worth hearing. So, next time, think it over carefully, and then don’t do it. That sounds real nice if they weren’t actually being pulled over for speeding. They are. Telling the cop who just pulled you over that there were many more cars travelling faster than you were usually falls upon deaf ears. And why don’t you admit that your concern is for the votes that the Democrats may lose rather than for the people who can’t vote? We already had one person say that old people don’t matter (primarily Republican voters) because they’ll be dead soon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=96) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-id-demanding-gop-vote-suppressors-part-1/624943.md?page=98)