# I pit the idiots who couldn't get healthcare.gov up and running despite being paid $600 million **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 26, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277 "2013-10-26T02:46:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/81 "2013-11-02T03:30:11Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Again, there is no way she could tell you what the cost of the “surge” is, since she has no way of knowing it. The “surge” did not happen yet. Gotta love it though how you think adding “dozens of new contract tech workers” would inflate costs by hundreds of million dollars. Those are some EXPENSIVE contract workers, aren’t they? A few tens of $million each? You are only guessing about the surge not happening yet. IIUC getting the most effective company to oversee the repairs (an extra task over the original launch, IIRC the main IT company is not the one overseeing the repairs but it was a company that did a good job with their portion of the project), and paying other experts to dump their current projects to commit to this is not cheap. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/82 "2013-11-02T03:55:38Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > You are only guessing about the surge not happening yet. It is “happening” but it has not “happened”. So its cost cannot be known. So she was not talking about it. > [@](#): > > IIUC getting the most effective company to oversee the repairs (an extra task over the original launch, IIRC the main IT company is not the one overseeing the repairs but it was a company that did a good job with their portion of the project), and paying other experts to dump their current projects to commit to this is not cheap. Man, you highlight the lines in the article but apparently you don’t read them. “But adding dozens of new contract tech workers means they have to get paid.” Dozens. Can you show me how that can translate into hundreds of millions of dollars? And seriously - you are thinking that spending $300M to fix a $350M project is “better” somehow than what was originally reported? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/83 "2013-11-02T04:13:05Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It is “happening” but it has not “happened”. So its cost cannot be known. So she was not talking about it. Sure, removing the context will be convincing… not. > [@Terr](#): > > Man, you highlight the lines in the article but apparently you don’t read them. > > “But adding dozens of new contract tech workers means they have to get paid.” > > Dozens. Can you show me how that can translate into hundreds of millions of dollars? You are missing the involvement of the original companies that are still there now working to correct the problems. > [@Terr](#): > > And seriously - you are thinking that spending $300M to fix a $350M project is “better” somehow than what was originally reported? It is when it seriously shows that you were a jerk for telling all that I was wrong when I was talking about the original price of the launch. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/84 "2013-11-02T04:16:28Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > It is when it seriously shows that you were a jerk for telling all that I was wrong when I was talking about the original price of the launch. LOL. You were. But you will never admit it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/85 "2013-11-02T04:17:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > LOL. You were. But you will never admit it. As pointed before you are only more evidence of the failure to deal with timelines syndrome that affects conservatives, seek help. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/86 "2013-11-02T04:18:33Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Sure, removing the context will be convincing… not. Yeah, cuz “context” can somehow allow the agency overseeing [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov) to know how much “the surge” will cost - before the surge actually did anything yet. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/87 "2013-11-02T04:23:23Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yeah, cuz “context” can somehow allow the agency overseeing [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov) to know how much “the surge” will cost - before the surge actually did anything yet. Of course, not noticing that that helps my argument more than it helps yours is also a given. What you are pressing for is to declare that it is more likely that she was making a guess, not very reliable then. I do think she was now more aware of what the costs are going to be in the short run as the launch failure has to be dealt with now. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/88 "2013-11-02T04:36:43Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Of course, not noticing that that helps my argument more than it helps yours is also a given. What you are pressing for is to declare that it is more likely that she was making a guess, not very reliable then. She was not. She reported the figure she knew - what the website cost so far. The new costs she has no idea about. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/89 "2013-11-02T04:41:17Z")
By the way, note the $630M website cost [reported on Oct 11th](http://hcmatters.com/2013/10/friday-rant-630-million-for-healthcare-gov/) (before any inkling of the “surge”). Just a coincidence I am sure. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/90 "2013-11-02T04:41:36Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > She was not. She reported the figure she knew - what the website cost so far. The new costs she has no idea about. Still missing the context, the question was related to this: “But adding dozens of new contract tech workers means they have to get paid.” She then talked about an educated guess about the total costs this and the launch are going to reach. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/91 "2013-11-02T04:42:40Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Still missing the context, the question was related to this: “But adding dozens of new contract tech workers means they have to get paid.” She then talked about an educated guess about the total costs this and the launch are going to reach. Fantasies and conjecture - on your part. Not surprising though. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/92 "2013-11-02T04:45:48Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > By the way, note the $630M website cost [reported on Oct 11th](http://hcmatters.com/2013/10/friday-rant-630-million-for-healthcare-gov/) (before any inkling of the “surge”). Just a coincidence I am sure. An opinion with no source, the most likely source is still the unsupported early reports. > **[The Myth Of The $634 Million Obamacare Website](https://www.mediamatters.org/sean-hannity/myth-634-million-obamacare-website)** > [@](#): > > The eye-popping $634 million figure was first trumpeted in a piece by Andrew Couts at Digital Trends on October 8. It pointed out that the Montreal-based company awarded the contract to build [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov), CGI Federal, had received $634 million in government contracts related to health care. (Digital Trends later amended the article and lowered the figure to “more than $500 million” that was allegedly spent “to build the digital equivalent of a rock.”) > > Stunned by the bloated figure, Couts noted “Twitter, created in 2006, managed to get by with only $360.17 million in total funding until a $400 million boost in 2011. Instagram ginned up just $57.5 million in funding before Facebook bought it for (a staggering) $1 billion last year.” > > Conservative commentators loved the report and quickly referred to it as fact. > > “As for cash, it appears that HHS spent over $600 million for the online system – more than it took to get Facebook started,” wrote John Sununu in a Boston Globe column, while the Washington Times reported, “The administration hasn’t said how much these efforts will cost; estimates indicate the website already has cost taxpayers more than $600 million.” > > Even ABC News pushed the report, noting “The administration has not provided a final cost of the website, although some estimates place it between $500 million to $600 million.” > > But the accounting employed by Digital Trends raised some eyebrows even within the conservative media. National Review Online contributor Greg Pollowitz tweeted that the CGI contracts Digital Trends pointed to included work that the firm had done for the U.S. government years before health care reform was actually passed into law. > > Glenn Beck’s site, The Blaze, also debunked the number. “While the federal website to signup for Obamacare was riddled with errors and had a rocky rollout, it didn’t cost $634 million to build,” wrote Liz Klimas. Citing an official inside GCI, The Blaze reported the $634 figure “includes all of the company’s contracts for a Health and Human Services Department program over the last seven years.” > > Independently, the Sunlight Foundation estimated it cost $70 million to build the much-maligned website, not $634 million. (Officially, CGI was awarded a $93 million contract for the [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov) job.) > > And today in his Fact Checker column in the Washington Post, Glenn Kessler looked at the question of the [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov) cost and concluded, “A conservative figure would be $70 million. A more modest figure would be $125 million to $150 million.” Kessler noted that the cost for the entire health care project beyond the website would be “at least $350 million.” > > Despite those red flags, the bloated figure has been widely embraced as factual within the conservative press. > [@Terr](#): > > Fantasies and conjecture - on your part. Not surprising though. Nope, it is just your failure to deal with timelines, and to ignore what the people that had access to more information reported. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/93 "2013-11-02T04:58:56Z")
And as the more recent updates tell us: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/24/how-much-did-healthcare-gov-cost/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/24/how-much-did-healthcare-gov-cost/) > [@](#): > > Update: Testimony on Capitol Hill and discussions with CGI officials have yielded updated numbers. > > CGI Federal has been paid $112 million for its work on the Web site so far, which is certainly higher than the $70 million mentioned above. Moreover, the federal government has obligated $196 million, so the tab could certainly run that high if CGI submits the bills. > > In the testimony, a reference was made to the fact that the TCV (total contract value) was $292 million. That is the least important number, as in effect it is like a credit card limit. What is more important is what has been already spent or obligated. > > QSSI indicated that its contract had been funded to $85 million, though at this point we are not sure if that is obligated or TCV funds. (Recall that GAO said that $55 million had been obligated.) > > To sum up: The floor for spending on the Web site to date appears to be at least $170 million, with an upward potential of nearly $300 million. > > Update, Oct. 30: In testimony on Capitol Hill, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said, in response to a direct question: “Congresswoman, we have spent about $118 million on the website itself, and about $56 million has been expended on other IT to support the web.” > > That adds up to $174 million. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/94 "2013-11-02T05:07:56Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And as the more recent updates tell us: > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/24/how-much-did-healthcare-gov-cost/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/24/how-much-did-healthcare-gov-cost/) Um - that’s an “old” update. Since then for example we know that the QSSI part is [$150M](http://nypost.com/2013/11/01/obama-donors-firm-hired-to-fix-web-mess-it-helped-make/) (not $85M or $55M as the “old” update indicates). And that’s just for before “the surge”. Quite a big difference, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/95 "2013-11-02T05:12:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Um - that’s an “old” update. Since then for example we know that the QSSI part is [$150M](http://nypost.com/2013/11/01/obama-donors-firm-hired-to-fix-web-mess-it-helped-make/) (not $85M or $55M as the “old” update indicates). And that’s just for before “the surge”. Quite a big difference, don’t you think? If you want to mislead others, the last update was on “old” Oct. 30. There is BTW no breakdown of the $150M number. Once again I have to agree with the reports that point out that the original 640 million number was actually including “all of the company’s contracts for a Health and Human Services Department program over the last seven years.” ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/96 "2013-11-02T05:40:49Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > If you want to mislead others, the last update was on “old” Oct. 30. I cited that update, in an exchange with you, a week ago or so. The date might show “Oct 30” but the article with those numbers was published quite a bit earlier. > [@](#): > > There is BTW no breakdown of the $150M number. Once again I have to agree with the reports that point out that the original 640 million number was actually including “all of the company’s contracts for a Health and Human Services Department program over the last seven years.” Of course you would. Honesty doesn’t fit your agenda. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/97 "2013-11-02T05:48:04Z")
I didn’t know Pee Wee Herman opened a debating school! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/98 "2013-11-02T05:49:07Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > If you want to mislead others, the last update was on “old” Oct. 30. [Here is the post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16791603&postcount=672) where I cite this article for you. Note the date. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/99 "2013-11-02T06:49:37Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [Here is the post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16791603&postcount=672) where I cite this article for you. Note the date. Read my posts,\*\* I did noticed that and I told you that I looked at your cite\*\*, what you reported from that was spin. The point stands, fact checkers already reported that more likely numbers were below 300 million and the 300 number was just the potential. > [@](#): > > To sum up: The floor for spending on the Web site to date appears to be at least $170 million, with an upward potential of nearly $300 million. What is more sad? The fact that the Media Matters cite I made cited the WaPo article what you helpfully posted. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2013, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277/100 "2013-11-02T06:58:55Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Read my posts,\*\* I did noticed that and I told you that I looked at your cite\*\*, what you reported from that was spin. The point stands, fact checkers already reported that more likely numbers were below 300 million and the 300 number was just the potential. If you remember it from back then why do you insist it’s a “recent update”? And the “fact checkers” didn’t know the numbers that came out after they “fact checked”. Like the $196M for CGI or $150M for QSSI. One also has to marvel at the disingenuousness of separating “the website itself” and “the IT to support the web”. Guess what - “the IT to support the web” is part of “the website itself”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-couldnt-get-healthcare-gov-up-and-running-despite-being-paid-600-million/672277.md?page=6)