# I pit the idiots who say the Nazis were "Socialists". **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 15, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568 "2014-08-15T01:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Eminent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Eminent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eminent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/241 "2018-03-20T20:10:10Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > How would you know? Very creative and not at all predictable. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/242 "2018-03-20T20:10:39Z")
Look, it’s over. We’ve been to the rodeo before, and we’ve seen better clowns. enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Eminent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Eminent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eminent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/243 "2018-03-20T20:11:12Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Shame you broke your streak. Shame? I wouldn’t use that word. I guess it’s a shame for people that pride themselves on misleading people, sure. Next one-liner, please. ---
**Author:** ![Eminent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Eminent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eminent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/244 "2018-03-20T20:13:45Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Look, it’s over. We’ve been to the rodeo before, and we’ve seen better clowns. > enjoy. I’m not surprised to hear that you surround yourself with clowns. A rodeo seems like the perfect venue for your comments, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/245 "2018-03-20T20:14:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In my day, trolls didn’t make it so dang easy to pick them apart! They didn’t make up quotes about others, lie about easily verifiable facts… Trolls went to real effort! Kids these days… It’s pretty obvious he just came here with a bunch of talking points that he was handed on some right wing website. He doesn’t actually know anything. ---
**Author:** ![Eminent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Eminent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eminent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/246 "2018-03-20T20:17:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s pretty obvious he just came here with a bunch of talking points that he was handed on some right wing website. He doesn’t actually know anything. If they’re just a bunch of talking points with no meat behind them, then you should have no trouble refuting them. I’m waiting. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/247 "2018-03-20T20:19:38Z")
> [@Eminent](#): > > I’m not surprised to hear that you surround yourself with clowns. A rodeo seems like the perfect venue for your comments, actually. Cheshire Human? ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/248 "2018-03-20T20:19:55Z")
> [@Eminent](#): > > Already did that pages ago. Keep up. > > … > > Capitalism: ‘an economic and political system in which a country’s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.’ > > ‘Trade unions had looked after the rights of the working class. The German Labour Front now did this.’ > > ^Not capitalism Labor unions are supposed to be independent of the government. If it isn’t, it’s not really functioning as a labor union, is it? > [@Eminent](#): > > ‘An individual had no choice about a job placement as anyone labelled ‘work shy’ was sent to prison.’ > > ^Not capitalism Not socialist either, but fascist and authoritarian. > [@Eminent](#): > > ‘Their conditions of work and pay were controlled and determined by the German Labour Front and the GLF represented the workers when disputes arose between management and workers.’ > > ^Not capitalism Again, labor unions are supposed to be an organ independent of both government and private interests. GLF was a government organ, ‘representing’ workers in disputes with management installed by the government. So how do you figure that situation to be production controlled by collective means? ---
**Author:** ![Eminent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Eminent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eminent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/249 "2018-03-20T20:20:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s pretty obvious he just came here with a bunch of talking points that he was handed on some right wing website. He doesn’t actually know anything. You all really need to get on the same page, by the way. One of you is making painfully stupid excuses for the fawning and crediting her appearance. You seem to be flat out in denial over the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/250 "2018-03-20T20:20:50Z")
> [@Eminent](#): > > Very creative and not at all predictable. Don’t toss 'em right over the plate then. ---
**Author:** ![Eminent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Eminent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eminent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/251 "2018-03-20T20:25:21Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Labor unions are supposed to be independent of the government. If it isn’t, it’s not really functioning as a labor union, is it? You just made that up. State-controlled labor unions have existed throughout history. > [@](#): > > Not socialist either, but fascist and authoritarian. Fascism is evolved out of the socialist movement (Mussolini himself was a former socialist) and socialism is inherently authoritarian in nature. > [@](#): > > Again, labor unions are supposed to be an organ independent of both government and private interests. GLF was a government organ, ‘representing’ workers in disputes with management installed by the government. So how do you figure that situation to be production controlled by collective means? Nope. Labor union: an organization of workers formed for the purpose of advancing its members’ interests in respect to wages, benefits, and working conditions. members of a labor union with job protection under a collective bargaining agreement with the employer. This idea that a labor union MUST be independent is pure fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/252 "2018-03-20T20:28:31Z")
Your #1 post, also in this thread, but 4 years ago. [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17773196&postcount=127](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17773196&postcount=127) ---
**Author:** ![Eminent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Eminent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eminent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/253 "2018-03-20T20:30:55Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Don’t toss 'em right over the plate then. Will that help keep the original and unpredictable comments flowing? ---
**Author:** ![Eminent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Eminent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eminent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/254 "2018-03-20T20:33:31Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Your #1 post, **also in this thread** , but 4 years ago. > > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17773196&postcount=127](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17773196&postcount=127) It should be. That’s where I said it was made. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/255 "2018-03-20T20:34:28Z")
Well, until you’re finished waiting. ---
**Author:** ![Eminent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Eminent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eminent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/256 "2018-03-20T20:35:30Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Well, until you’re finished waiting. At this rate, I don’t think I’ll ever stop. I mean, ‘QuickSilver’ came pretty close with his jar of vaseline comment. That was almost substantive. Almost. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/257 "2018-03-20T20:46:22Z")
> [@Eminent](#): > > ‘Does that mean we’ve got to scrap all of ours?’ Yes. Immediately. > > That’s besides the point. The thread is about Nazi ideology and whether it’s accurate to describe the National Socialists as socialists. The term “Nazi” is an abbreviation for the title of the party: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, which in English translates to: National Socialist German Worker’s Party. I think it’s pretty clear they were socialists. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/258 "2018-03-20T20:53:47Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The term “Nazi” is an abbreviation for the title of the party: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, which in English translates to: National Socialist German Worker’s Party. > > I think it’s pretty clear they were socialists. Exactly. The official name of North Korea is the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. I think it’s pretty clear it is a democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Eminent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Eminent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eminent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/259 "2018-03-20T20:57:05Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > The term “Nazi” is an abbreviation for the title of the party: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, which in English translates to: National Socialist German Worker’s Party. > > I think it’s pretty clear they were socialists. Of course, the name is a huge giveaway, but the real proof is in their policies and their comments. 'While the bourgeoisie does not care at all about this enor-mously important question, but indifferently lets things take their course, the Jew seizes the unlimited opportunity for the future which is offered here, and while on the one side he organizes the capitalist methods of exploiting humanbeings to the ultimate consequence, he approaches the veryvictims of his spirit and his activity, and after a short time he becomes even the leader of their fight against himself. 'Against himself is, of course, only metaphorically ex-pressed, for the great master of lies knows how to make himself appear always as the ‘pure 1 one and to charge the guilt to the others. As he has the impudence to lead the masses in such a manner, the latter does not even think at all that this could mean the most villainous betrayal of all times.’ - Hitler 'Hence the movement must adopt a positive attitude towards the trade-unionist idea. But it must go further than this. For the enormous number of members and followers of the trade-unionist movement it must provide a practical education which will meet the exigencies of the coming National Socialist State. The answer to the third question follows from what has been already said. The National Socialist Trades Union is not an instrument for class warfare, but a representative organ of the various occupations and callings. The National Socialist State recognizes no ‘classes’. But, under the political aspect, it recognizes only citizens with absolutely equal rights and equal obligations corresponding thereto. And, side by side with these, it recognizes subjects of the State who have no political rights whatsoever.’ - Hitler A regular Yaron Brook… ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568/260 "2018-03-20T21:22:23Z")
> [@Eminent](#): > > Labor union: an organization of workers formed for the purpose of advancing its members’ interests in respect to wages, benefits, and working conditions. members of a labor union with job protection under a collective bargaining agreement with the employer. > > This idea that a labor union MUST be independent is pure fantasy. “An organization of workers formed for the purpose of advancing its members interests”, not “An organization of government-appointed individuals formed for the purpose of advancing the interests of the government”. ETA: In nazi Germany, employer and government was more or less the same thing, btw. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-idiots-who-say-the-nazis-were-socialists/695568.md?page=14)