# I pit the intentionally obtuse! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 27, 2009, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884 "2009-08-27T06:39:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![statsman1982](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@statsman1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statsman1982)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/1 "2009-08-27T06:39:27Z")
You know these types, right? Those individuals who seem to have a terminal lack of ability to draw inferences? Let me give you one example. I posted a question in GQ ([here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11489782&posted=1#post11489782)) asking whether Criss Angel was a “real” magician? Notice the use of the quotes? Their presence makes a huge difference in the meaning of a sentence, does it not? Quotes are shorthand, letting the reader know that the word so enclosed has a specific contextual meaning that the writer is trying to convey. Is this a difficult concept to grasp? Apparently it is for **kaylasdad99, who in post #11 of the aforementioned thread wanted to a) show that he should be a mod and b) prove that I was such an idiot for posting a question about “real” (note the quotes again) magicians.** I’ve run across people who cannot understand nuances in language in number of areas, but they seem to be disproportionately represented in technical fields (I can safely say this; I have a degree in information systems as well as statistics). I had a computer science professor who, perhaps for some sick and twisted pedagogical reason, would not answer the simplest of questions if they weren’t posed perfectly. Did this benefit me? Hard to tell. He was the only professor who taught CS at my tiny liberal arts school. But it sure as hell drove out a number of promising degree candidates, ultimately resulting in the discontinuation of the program altogether and his termination. Dammit, why are some people such lunkheads when it comes to communications? Are they really incapable of inferring meaning from perfectly grammatical, if awkwardly worded, sentences? Are they trying to be assholes? Or does it just come naturally? If being a snarky asshole is required in technical fields, I sense danger for my career ambitions. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/2 "2009-08-27T07:21:43Z")
I don’t get where you’re coming from. Sorry. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/3 "2009-08-27T07:29:09Z")
[My first Pitting! Wait’ll I tell Mom!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11489872&posted=1#post11489872) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/4 "2009-08-27T07:44:26Z")
The above post notwithstanding, I feel compelled to elaborate. To me, the use of quotation marks around a term primarily means not really. I’m annoyed when I see, for instance, a hand-written sign at a lunch counter that attempts to use them as emphasis. like so: > [@](#): > > NO FREE REFILLS on SODA. Refills “75¢” When I see that I want to say “How much are refills _really_?” I also want to say “You cheap bastards.” But neither of those are polite, so I just die a little inside. So to ask if someone is a “real” \<_insert profession here_\>, to me, is essentially asking if that person is _not really_ a \<_insert profession here_\>. Pet peeve of mine. But I really had no excuse taking it out on you. ---
**Author:** ![statsman1982](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@statsman1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statsman1982)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/5 "2009-08-27T08:07:37Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > …To me, the use of quotation marks around a term primarily means not really. I’m annoyed when I see, for instance, a hand-written sign at a lunch counter that attempts to use them as emphasis. like so:When I see that I want to say “How much are refills _really_?” I also want to say “You cheap bastards.” > > But neither of those are polite, so I just die a little inside. > > So to ask if someone is a “real” \<_insert profession here_\>, to me, is essentially asking if that person is _not really_ a \<_insert profession here_\>… I’m as much of a grammar Nazi as anyone, so I am really, honestly, not trying to be a dick when I refer to [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#Signaling_unusual_usage). My question wasn’t that great of a post in GQ, as it turns out. It probably should have gone in IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/6 "2009-08-27T08:08:03Z")
**kaylasdad99** , you’re such a “dick.” (in case that came across snarky, _please_ read your second reply again) I didn’t quite get the feeling that you were being pitted so much as overly pedantic, knee-jerk semantics in general. It’s as if some people don’t really give a crap about conversation or exploring a concept, they just want to find something to hang a disagreement on. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/7 "2009-08-27T11:46:12Z")
> [@statsman1982](#): > > My question wasn’t that great of a post in GQ, as it turns out. It probably should have gone in IMHO. Actually, since it’s about an entertainer, and his show, I would have suggested Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/8 "2009-08-27T12:08:41Z")
On the upside, this thread reminded me of the Bennett Brauer bit on SNL. So, not a total loss. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/9 "2009-08-27T12:15:52Z")
Yes, the quotes around the word “real” do serve a purpose more like their original meaning as quotations than as irony demarcators. In this case the OP in the other thread appears to refer to the phrase ’ “real magicians” ’ as something someone would say, while fully realizing that real magic does not exist. So, while acknowledging that actual magick does not exist, it is asking if someone would be called a “real” magician in terms of actually performing the illusions like most others who make their living through sleight of hand and other traditional tricks rather than relying on modern technology and media, even though they do not actually have the power to violate natural laws. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/10 "2009-08-27T12:26:42Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > I didn’t quite get the feeling that you were being pitted so much as overly pedantic, knee-jerk semantics in general. It’s as if some people don’t really give a crap about conversation or exploring a concept, they just want to find something to hang a disagreement on. Exactly. We all have a definition of what a magician is, and we ALL know it doesn’t involve supernatural powers. The question was, does Criss Angel fall under the category of what would be known as a magician, i.e. a person with talents and skills that allows him or her to perform illusions that \*appear \*to have supernatural explanations. The question wasn’t, “Does Criss Angel have supernatural powers like every other magician?” And to act like that was the question is overly pedantic and kind of dickish. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/11 "2009-08-27T12:58:01Z")
Who would like to visit the [Blog of Unnecessary Quotation Marks](http://www.unnecessaryquotes.com/)? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/12 "2009-08-27T14:19:30Z")
“Me”, “me”, “me”! ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/13 "2009-08-27T14:53:53Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Yes, the quotes around the word “real” do serve a purpose more like their original meaning as quotations than as irony demarcators. In this case the OP in the other thread appears to refer to the phrase ’ “real magicians” ’ as something someone would say, while fully realizing that real magic does not exist. So, while acknowledging that actual magick does not exist, it is asking if someone would be called a “real” magician in terms of actually performing the illusions like most others who make their living through sleight of hand and other traditional tricks rather than relying on modern technology and media, even though they do not actually have the power to violate natural laws. Exactly. Plain and simply, you have broken down exactly what the OP meant, and every one else can clearly see that too. It is a huge pet peeve of mine when people get all furrow-browed and mock-confused when they know good and damn well what someone means. Are they trying to prove that they are wise and superior because they recognize magic isn’t real? Wow. Thanks for clueing us all in that magic isn’t real. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/14 "2009-08-27T15:27:55Z")
I guess I think ass-backwards because if somebody asked me - Is he a “real” magician? - I would answer “No, magic isn’t real.” If they asked me - Is he a real magician? - I would answer either “yes, he operates like other magicians” or “no, he edits the resulting video to take out the evidence”. That said, **statsman1982** explained his reference adequately in the OP. **kaylasdad99** stepped on it anyway and was mildly smacked in the original thread. A pitting of him seems to be overreaction and pitting of the action seems kind of mild for The Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/15 "2009-08-27T15:35:57Z")
“I feel Superior by artificially creating situations in which the other person can be accused of the kind of gross stupidity that makes me seem intelligent by comparison.” Pretty pathetic, really, when people have to put false words or meanings into the mouths of others in order to put them down and therefore raise themselves up on the bodies of their fallen victims. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/16 "2009-08-27T16:10:35Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > It is a huge pet peeve of mine when people get all furrow-browed and mock-confused when they know good and damn well what someone means. Are they trying to prove that they are wise and superior because they recognize magic isn’t real? Wow. Thanks for clueing us all in that magic isn’t real. That annoys me as well, and then I remember conversations like the one where I discovered that my step-daughter, an apparently worthwhile member of society and mother of two children, genuinely believed that Michael Jackson could really, really fly because she’d seen it on a video of one of his concerts and he went out over the audience and everything. So I do try to allow some benefit of the doubt to people whom I would otherwise assume were treating me like an idiot, because it turns out that the answer to the question “You do know there’s no such thing as magic?” can’t always be assumed to be “yes”. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/17 "2009-08-27T17:31:09Z")
> [@statsman1982](#): > > If being a snarky asshole is required in technical fields, I sense danger for my career ambitions. :rolleyes: You shouldn’t criticize others’ inability to make sense of gibberish and then write this barely intelligible nonsense. Effing comma splice, it sounds like this in my head: If being a snarky asshole is required in technical fields _ooh shiny keys yeah_ I sense danger for my career ambitions. What are you, fucking spider-man? Also, snark and derision are the pidgins of the technically inclined, maybe you should brush up on them a little. ---
**Author:** ![the\_first\_supraliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f475e1/32.png) [@the\_first\_supraliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_first_supraliminal)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/18 "2009-08-27T17:33:50Z")
Don’t be so hard on **kaylasdad99**. Some people are born dense, some people study to become dense, and the others have density dropped on their pointy heads. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/19 "2009-08-27T18:13:47Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > **kaylasdad99** , you’re such a “dick.” 😃 > [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > (in case that came across snarky, _please_ read your second reply again) No worries. > [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > I didn’t quite get the feeling that you were being pitted so much as overly pedantic, knee-jerk semantics in general. It’s as if some people don’t really give a crap about conversation or exploring a concept, they just want to find something to hang a disagreement on. Are you trying to take my first Pitting away from me? ☹ ETA: I think another factor in my response is that I don’t care for the term “magician.” I prefer “illusionist” or “stage magician.” ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884/20 "2009-08-27T18:57:51Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > That annoys me as well, and then I remember conversations like the one where I discovered that my step-daughter, an apparently worthwhile member of society and mother of two children, genuinely believed that Michael Jackson could really, really fly because she’d seen it on a video of one of his concerts and he went out over the audience and everything. **blink** [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-intentionally-obtuse/507884.md?page=2)