# I pit the Irish Presidential election **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 25, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573 "2011-09-25T18:03:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/61 "2011-09-29T22:41:14Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Not being Irish, I have a question. I see that McGuinness is currently the deputy first minister of Northern Ireland, and he’s also running for President of the Republic of Ireland. Is it common for both Irish countries to trade politicians like this? And for that matter, are most Northern Irish also citizens of Ireland? I’m asking because it sounds odd to me, like if a Albertan provincial cabinet minister were running for Governor of Montana. But of course the links between Ireland and Northern Ireland are closer than what I’m probably used to see between different countries. Citizens of NI can choose to identify as Irish citizens, as per the Good Friday Agreement. But even prior to that it wasn’t that hard, IIRC for NI people to take on Irish citizenship. Britain and Ireland have had free movement of people going back to the foundation of the Irish State. The most significant precedent for McGuinness’s candidacy is [Gerry Adams](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Adams) who ran for and was recently elected TD (MP) in Co. Louth in the Republic Of Ireland. This was despite already sitting as an elected official in Northern Ireland. To be fair, he resigned his NI role before taking on the job south of the border. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/62 "2011-09-29T23:02:26Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > And for that matter, are most Northern Irish also citizens of Ireland? I won’t comment on McGuiness right now, because I have to go and cannot give a full answer. But on the quoted question, I am from Northern Ireland, and I have in the drawer beside me both British and Irish passports. Not only can we identify as either, we can identify as both. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/63 "2011-09-29T23:05:51Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > I won’t comment on McGuiness right now, because I have to go and cannot give a full answer. But on the quoted question, I am from Northern Ireland, and I have in the drawer beside me both British and Irish passports. Not only can we identify as either, we can identify as both. Oh one of them are you? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/64 "2011-09-29T23:08:49Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Oh one of them are you? 🙂 No, both of them. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/65 "2011-09-29T23:19:52Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > No, both of them. 😉 Janus-faced saucy mexican. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/66 "2011-09-30T06:13:24Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Citizens of NI can choose to identify as Irish citizens, as per the Good Friday Agreement. But even prior to that it wasn’t that hard, IIRC for NI people to take on Irish citizenship. Britain and Ireland have had free movement of people going back to the foundation of the Irish State. Thank you, that’s interesting. I wonder, though, what percentage of British citizens living in Northern Ireland are also Irish citizens. I guess it’s more common among republicans and Catholics. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/67 "2011-09-30T14:27:30Z")
Could we possibly do some dirty work and pretend that Julia Gillard was born in Ireland rather than Wales? Gets away from Mary, but sadly no lovely lilt in her speech. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/68 "2011-09-30T18:50:26Z")
Technically- the UK considers everyone born in Northern Ireland to parents born in Northern Ireland to be British, and the Irish government considers them Irish (but not Irish enough to vote in this election) . One can identify as either or both, depending on situation and context. I have to ask my patients their ethnicity when filling out various screening and risk assessment tools. In my current practice in a staunchly Catholic area 99% will identify themselves as Irish, with the remaining 1 % being Chinese, eastern European or born in England, rather than northern Irish people identifying as British. Some of them will have Irish passports, some will have British, some will have neither, some will have both. For various reasons- it is easier and more convenient, for example, to get a British passport at short notice. Some people prefer to travel with the reassurance of the larger British consulate facilities. Some people feel that travelling as the citizen of a neutral country gives benefits too. My father-in-law, a psychologist specialising in conflict, often travels to relatively unsafe locations (Colombia, Israel, Sri Lanka etc). Having two passports has proved very helpful, especially as he can have one without any Israeli stamps in it. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/69 "2011-09-30T19:10:41Z")
One’s cheaper than the other too, I think it’s a tenner cheaper for the Irish one. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/70 "2011-09-30T21:00:47Z")
Ah, but if you are in Belfast and lose your Irish passport and only have 72hrs before your honeymoon the options are: 1. Go to Dublin and spend the day before your wedding trying to sort it out. 2. Get a British one without leaving Belfast. Option 2 has some appeal, even for a die-hard Nationalist. This exact scenario happened to a former workmate- she decided she could stomach being British for the duration of her honeymoon, as long as she actually got to go on honeymoon! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/71 "2011-09-30T22:41:22Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Incientally even De Velera wanted to stay a Dominion What difference would that make now? ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/72 "2011-09-30T22:45:43Z")
Fuck me. They spent the first chunk of the presidential debate arguing over whether or not they should have campaign posters. The guy whose only credential is that he’s a reality-TV celebrity was against it. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/73 "2011-10-01T00:09:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What difference would that make now? Well, there wouldn’t be a thread about the election for President of Ireland. And Liz’ face would be on the money. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/74 "2011-10-01T01:12:52Z")
What are the salient issues in Irish politics these days, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/75 "2011-10-01T01:42:40Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Well, there wouldn’t be a thread about the election for President of Ireland. And Liz’ face would be on the money. It’s more [complicated](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_head_of_state_from_1936_to_1949) than that. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/76 "2011-10-01T02:10:11Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > And Liz’ face would be on the money. The Irish pound’s coins didn’t have the monarch’s effigy on them from their introduction in 1928 until 1936/49, so I don’t think that would necessarily be the case. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/77 "2011-10-01T09:32:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What are the salient issues in Irish politics these days, anyway? Not that they’re of huge concern to the President but something like unemployment, economic crisis, public and private debt, the Euro, the IMF, pretty much anything to do with the economy are all the main issues. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/78 "2011-10-01T10:56:56Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > I think it is interesting the way a lot of southerners feel about McGuiness. It seems he is simply a terrorist to them, they have a black and white idea of him as a murderer. Whereas in the North we did not have the luxury of taking a moral stance on his history, we had to accept him and his party in the need to forge a peace process. During the last general election I heard a few northerners, including some who would definitely not be republican oriented, comment that the southern media and political establishment seem to be where the Nordies were 20-30 years ago when it comes to SF. They felt that they’d moved on from that ages ago and were amazed that the south was still stuck on that page. Personally I find it an interesting contrast with the southern reaction to the deaths of David Ervine and Gusty Spence, it was all “weren’t they wonderful for turning their backs on violence…” My only dilemma is whether to give either Mitchell or Dana a preference at all. Normally I vote straight down the ballot paper but leave the most vile candidate blank, just to emphasise my loathing for them, but I really can’t decide which of these two I loathe more. At the moment I’m leaning towards leaving out Mitchell. At least I agree with Dana about the EU (although for entirely different reasons), whereas I can’t think of a single thing I agree with Mitchell on. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/79 "2011-10-01T12:13:58Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > Personally I find it an interesting contrast with the southern reaction to the deaths of David Ervine and Gusty Spence, it was all “weren’t they wonderful for turning their backs on violence…” I imagine when it comes to McGuinness’, Adams’ or any other prominent IRA types from the era’s obituaries, most will be sympathetic. Most obituaries tend to be that way. Also, loyalist terrorists-turned-politicians never got the same flak in the Republic than their republican counterparts do because they never stood for elected office here. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573/80 "2011-10-01T15:32:14Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Not that they’re of huge concern to the President but something like unemployment, economic crisis, public and private debt, the Euro, the IMF, pretty much anything to do with the economy are all the main issues. Does Irish politics have any salient issues that are **different** from those of British or Continental politics? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-irish-presidential-election/597573.md?page=5)