# I pit the legal community of Steubenville Ohio **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 4, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016 "2013-01-04T00:20:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/142 "2013-03-19T20:33:58Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > To be fair, Fox has no monopoly on [contemptible coverage](http://gawker.com/5991003/cnn-reports-on-the-promising-future-of-the-steubenville-rapists-who-are-very-good-students): > > Oh, the poor dear boys… :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :smack: :mad: [College Basketball Star Heroically Overcomes Tragic Rape He Committed](http://www.theonion.com/video/college-basketball-star-heroically-overcomes-tragi,19097/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=standard-post%3Aheadline%3Adefault) (The Onion) (Side note: I found this because my Facebook friend was OUTRAGED the Onion made jokes about rape, even though they were kind of pointing out that rape is a big deal and not something the media should brush off because it was an athlete. _Sigh_ Satire is lost on some) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/143 "2013-03-19T20:40:59Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > … > I wonder… Soccer ( football ) is just massive outside of the USA. Are there countries where soccer players rape girls and are protected by their soccer coaches and we just don’t read about it in the USA? Or is this truly an American cycle of abuse? Overseas Dopers?? You may as well ask if teachers sometimes rape their students. I think the answer is a pretty universal “yes” – people in authority over others sometimes abuse their power. I think what sets this apart is not the rapists and victim, but the response and apparent involvement by so many in the community in a coverup. In some ways it is like a junior Penn State scandal, where the football team was considered so precious anyone who was a part of it seemed to be protected. But in the current scandal at least some of the protectors were not officials of the school or the team, but just fans, parents, or what have you. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/144 "2013-03-19T20:52:40Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > I wonder… Soccer ( football ) is just massive outside of the USA. Are there countries where soccer players rape girls and are protected by their soccer coaches and we just don’t read about it in the USA? Or is this truly an American cycle of abuse? Overseas Dopers?? You’re kidding, right? There are plenty of paternalistic and openly misogynistic groups and countries where sufficiently popular, wealthy, or powerful men can often get away with a lot. The friggin’ Catholic Church is Exhibit #1. Not always girls in those cases, but the same attitude of protecting their own is there. Cases of US military sex assaults spiking with deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan and the often disappointing attempts to cover up or minimize the news are another example, as are often covered up or brushed over cases of assaults on local girls in foreign bases. And also at the service academies, for that matter. And especially in those cases, there are cases of both implicit and explicit protection by the people and communities those people are supposed to serve. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/145 "2013-03-19T21:26:22Z")
No I wasn’t kidding but I do see your point. Forget Iraq and Afghanistan. Try the [United States Air Force Basic Training at Lackland Air Force Base](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/27/us/former-air-force-recruit-speaks-out-about-rape-by-her-sergeant-at-lackland.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0). ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/146 "2013-03-19T21:42:55Z")
At least there, there were convictions and sentences being served. Eventually. [This case, on the other hand. . .](http://rt.com/usa/air-force-rape-law-218/) . . . at least it’s getting national and Congressional attention from those lawmakers who are trying to get the DOD and the military to do more than provide lip service towards the idea of improving their record towards sexual assault. There are places online where one can add their names to the list of people who do want to see this sort of situation improved. It’s not a huge contribution, but given how slowly progress has been being made, showing support for those Congresspersons pushing this issue, it’s worth taking a moment to do that much. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/147 "2013-03-19T22:44:34Z")
I don’t know much about Grand Juries. Do the 16 who refused to cooperate have to appear? If so, do they have to give testimony? Can they take the “5th?” What happens if they refuse to appear, or give testimony? ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/148 "2013-03-20T01:28:45Z")
Not that they don’t deserve it but these boys lives may actually be fucked. I don’t see why it’s a such a shame to point that out. I would rather have that than what they did with Sandusky and label them as “monsters.” They are mere men who made terrible choices. The tone should have been more along the lines of “that’s what they get” instead of what they chose. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/149 "2013-03-20T03:29:28Z")
GOOD. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/150 "2013-03-20T06:24:49Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > I don’t know much about Grand Juries. Do the 16 who refused to cooperate have to appear? If so, do they have to give testimony? Can they take the “5th?” What happens if they refuse to appear, or give testimony? They can be compelled to appear. [From the Wikipedia article on Grand Juries:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_juries_in_the_United_States#Limited_constitutional_rights) > [@](#): > > Individuals subject to grand jury proceedings do not have a Sixth Amendment constitutional right to counsel in the grand jury room, nor do they have a Sixth Amendment right to confront and cross-examine witnesses. Additionally, individuals in grand jury proceedings can \*\*be charged with holding the court in contempt (punishable with incarceration for the remaining term of the grand jury) if they refuse to appear before the jury. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/151 "2013-03-20T11:57:45Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Hopefully, the scum will live in Steubenville and have daughters who can be the victims of the next generation of rapists. Maybe then they can see what the rest of us see. No. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/152 "2013-03-20T16:29:03Z")
> [@MegaBee](#): > > No. Yeah, seriously, what the fuck? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/153 "2013-03-20T16:33:43Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > They can be compelled to appear. [From the Wikipedia article on Grand Juries:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_juries_in_the_United_States#Limited_constitutional_rights) > > > [@](#): > > > > Individuals subject to grand jury proceedings do not have a Sixth Amendment constitutional right to counsel in the grand jury room, nor do they have a Sixth Amendment right to confront and cross-examine witnesses. Additionally, individuals in grand jury proceedings can be charged with holding the court in contempt (punishable with incarceration for the remaining term of the grand jury) if they refuse to appear before the jury. That seems like a pretty weak punishment–they can only be incarcerated for the term of the grand jury? Doesn’t seem like enough punishment to force someone to testify. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/154 "2013-03-20T16:46:01Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > That seems like a pretty weak punishment–they can only be incarcerated for the term of the grand jury? Doesn’t seem like enough punishment to force someone to testify. Federal grand juries sit for 18 to 24 months. [According to this U-Dayton site](http://campus.udayton.edu/~grandjur/stategj/termgj.htm), in Ohio the term is variable, but it suggests at least several months. So it’s not like a regular jury which may sit for just a few days. But you still might luck out if you get jailed as their term is nearing its end. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/155 "2013-03-20T16:47:55Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > That seems like a pretty weak punishment–they can only be incarcerated for the term of the grand jury? Doesn’t seem like enough punishment to force someone to testify. Read the non-bolded part. The idiot girls Equipoise asked about can be compelled to appear before the grand jury _without_ benefit of council and can be jailed for refusing to do so. From the Wikipedia article: > [@](#): > > A grand jury is a type of jury that determines whether a criminal indictment will be issued. These are the folks deciding if you can be charged, and you won’t have a lawyer while they are doing so. The old legal joke is that with a grand jury a prosecutor could “indite a ham sandwich”. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/156 "2013-03-20T16:50:41Z")
One other thing. It doesn’t say the situations in which any of these people withheld information. I’m not sure what option to punish them are available if they wouldn’t talk to cops on the street, for example. IANAL, but I think in most cases one has to be under some sort of court order to talk, and violate that, before they can be punished for it. But maybe an actual lawyer can come along and clear this up for me. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/157 "2013-03-26T17:16:03Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > This is true. I am a victim of rape, and my life is far from ruined. > > To be fair, serving a year in juvie hardly qualifies as “life ruining” either, though. Housekeeper Who Stole a Bag of Frozen Meatballs Facing As Much Jail Time As Steubenville Rapist [http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/housekeeper-who-stole-bag-frozen-meatballs-facing-much-jail-time-steubenville](http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/housekeeper-who-stole-bag-frozen-meatballs-facing-much-jail-time-steubenville) Nice that we have our priorities straight. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/158 "2013-03-26T19:11:45Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Hopefully, the scum will live in Steubenville and have daughters who can be the victims of the next generation of rapists. Maybe then they can see what the rest of us see. They should have their mothers and sisters raped too. That’ll show 'em by cracky. > [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Housekeeper Who Stole a Bag of Frozen Meatballs Facing As Much Jail Time As Steubenville Rapist > > [http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/housekeeper-who-stole-bag-frozen-meatballs-facing-much-jail-time-steubenville](http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/housekeeper-who-stole-bag-frozen-meatballs-facing-much-jail-time-steubenville) > > Nice that we have our priorities straight. Yeah, that’s messed up. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/159 "2013-03-26T22:50:10Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Housekeeper Who Stole a Bag of Frozen Meatballs Facing As Much Jail Time As Steubenville Rapist > > [http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/housekeeper-who-stole-bag-frozen-meatballs-facing-much-jail-time-steubenville](http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/housekeeper-who-stole-bag-frozen-meatballs-facing-much-jail-time-steubenville) > > Nice that we have our priorities straight. The article says she could spend _up_ to two years, which is probably the max for burglary. Let’s see what actually happens. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/160 "2013-03-27T00:20:05Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Housekeeper Who Stole a Bag of Frozen Meatballs Facing As Much Jail Time As Steubenville Rapist > > [http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/housekeeper-who-stole-bag-frozen-meatballs-facing-much-jail-time-steubenville](http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/housekeeper-who-stole-bag-frozen-meatballs-facing-much-jail-time-steubenville) > > Nice that we have our priorities straight. The [latest article by Ken at Popehat](http://www.popehat.com/2013/03/26/cloudy-with-a-chance-of-shitty-journalism/) explains that the federal sentencing guidelines in this case give a recommendation of 0 to 6 months in jail, and that probation with no jail time is “extremely probable”. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016/161 "2013-03-27T00:37:20Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > I would rather have that than what they did with Sandusky and label them as “monsters.” They are mere men who made terrible choices. Well, what else do you think monsters are in the real world? We’ve a shortage of the kinds of monsters that have bat wings and glowy eyes, and are stuck with the _homo sapiens_ variety of monster. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-legal-community-of-steubenville-ohio/646016.md?page=9)