# I pit the McKinley High School football coaches of Canton, Ohio **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 2, 2021, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507 "2021-06-02T22:10:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/41 "2021-06-03T13:14:44Z")
I don’t think anti-Semites are really that discerning. I was an eight year old olive skinned white girl with dark curly hair when n\*\*\*\*\*\*\* was screamed at me by a vegetable throwing mob during school integration. But I’m sure those people weren’t racists or anything because I’m white. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/42 "2021-06-03T13:14:58Z")
@Slow_Moving_Vehicle, The article you linked included a lot more details than the earlier ones linked in this thread. That puts the situation in a bit more context. So, it seems clear he wasn’t being punished he was a Hebrew Israelite, but because he missed a _voluntary_ workout. Which is abusive and inexcusable, but not anti-Semitism. That article, unlike the earlier ones, also makes it clear that the family’s attorney is claiming that the student clearly told the coaches multiple times they were making him violate his religion’s prohibition on pork. It’s clearly horrible, and I endorse this pitting. Making him eat pizza is still just weird. From that article, it seems like making him eat pork wasn’t the point of the punishment - they let him pick off the pepperoni and some of the cheese with pepperoni residue. > [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Religious bigotry could have played a part as well; if the coach were an evangelical Christian, as many are, he might not have taken the player’s non-mainstream religion seriously. Yeah, from the available information, it really seems like the coaches (and teammates) just didn’t take his religious beliefs seriously, not that those beliefs were the impetus for the hazing, which is still bigotry, of course, and the hazing was still reprehensible and inexcusable. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/43 "2021-06-03T13:19:34Z")
We’re going off of second and third hand information on the incident. But take a look at the more detailed article @Slow_Moving_Vehicle linked, and my comment just above. It’s certainly not implausible that anti-Semitism played some role, but from the information we have, it just doesn’t seem to me like it was the instigating factor. It doesn’t seem like the player was forced to eat a pepperoni pizza _because_ he was a Hebrew Israelite, but that his religious objections were brushed aside. Which is still reprehensible, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/44 "2021-06-03T13:39:55Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Making him eat pizza is still just weird. From that article, it seems like making him eat pork wasn’t the point of the punishment - they let him pick off the pepperoni and some of the cheese with pepperoni residue. Remember the jelly doughnut scene from _Full Metal Jacket_? Sgt. Hartman finds a doughnut in Pvt. Pyle’s footlocker, and makes him eat it while the rest of the platoon does pushups in punishment? > [@](#): > > Private Pyle has dishonored himself and dishonored the platoon! I have tried to help him, but I have failed! I have failed because you have not helped me! You have not given Private Pyle the proper motivation! So, from now on, whenever Private Pyle \*\*\*\*s up, I will not punish him, I will punish all of you! And the way I see it, ladies, you owe me for one jelly doughnut! Now, get on your faces! > _To Pvt Pyle_ They’re paying for it, you eat it! I think that was the coaches’ idea: get the rest of the player’s squad angry at him. “Oh, you didn’t feel like working out? You wanted to sit on your ass and eat pizza? Fine. You’ll sit here and eat a pizza while the rest of the team watches you!” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/5NP8y63Ms4o/hqdefault.jpg "Full Metal Jacket - Jelly Doughnut Scene") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NP8y63Ms4o) ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/45 "2021-06-03T13:51:48Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Eight coaches would be overkill for “yeah, I think we have a football team.” (It isn’t a small school either - about 2000 students). That’s about double the number of students at my high school but 70% of our students played at least two varsity sports. It would be weird to spend money when you don’t have a team but I have no idea how that’s relevant to this school. It appears that this team has 9 assistant coaches on top of the head coach and a full freshman football team. You can see what position each person coaches [here](https://www.cantonmckinley.com/2020-football-program-information-5-2). I’m not certain what’s up with their JV team since list a record but don’t show photos or list coaches. It seems like they’ve got at least 100 kids in their program. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/46 "2021-06-03T13:54:16Z")
I await the deafening silence from the freedom of religion Republicans on this matter. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/47 "2021-06-03T13:59:58Z")
That makes some sense. I mean, in a twisted, abusive power play sort of way. The other speculative scenario I thought of: > [@](#): > > The player skipped the “voluntary” workout, but then showed up for a team pizza party, but then didn’t even want to eat the pizza. The coaches already thought of him as a prima donna snowflake, and they thought he was making a power play, so they decided to turn it on him. > > Coach: “So, you don’t show up for workouts, you only show up for the parties, and then you don’t even want to eat pizza with your teammates? Well, mister, you’re going to sit over there, in the middle of the gym, all by your special snowflake self, and eat this whole pizza. Or maybe you’d rather watch the rest of your squad to run punishment drills? Or maybe you don’t even want to be on this team? I can cut you right now if that would make your life easier…” > > Player: “But Coach, that’s pepperoni pizza. That’s pork. That’s forbidden in my faith.” > > Coach [rolls eyes at yet more snowflake BS]: “Fine, just pick off the pepperoni if it’s so awful. But by God, you’re going to eat this whole damn thing!” > > Player [picks off the pepperoni]: “But Coach, there’s still pork grease…I just can’t. It’s against my faith!” > > Coach: “Aww, poor baby, is this too hard? Just pick off the cheese with the pepperoni grease. Your special religion isn’t getting you out of this.” > > [Player continues to protest but reluctantly complies while coaches and teammates mock him.] Which is all still awful and abusive, of course. And is entirely speculative and may well bear no resemblance to what actually happened. But, again, making him eat pork to intentionally make him violate his religion’s tenets, but then by the student’s own account letting him pick off the pork and some of the cheese just seems even more non-sensical to me. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/48 "2021-06-03T14:07:09Z")
Just for context a lot of big time High School football programs have big fan bases (thousands, sometimes more 10,000+ per game), bring in lots of money, have big money boosters etc. There’s not anything unusual about using that many coaches per se, due to the fact football does have that many specialized sub units. Obviously smaller schools in states where High School football isn’t as big a deal, won’t have the resources to keep that number of coaches. That being said though, typically a program even of this size, it’s not unusual that the head coach is an actual hired full time coach probably making $50-60k+ a year only for coaching, and one or both of his coordinators might have “real salaries” too. It’s possible all of them do some work outside the team though as you’ll have free time outside of the season. But even at this school it’s highly unlikely the rest of the coaches are paid much, they are probably getting a few thousand dollars a season. Around where I’ve lived frequently the head football coach is a teacher, and only makes a few grand a year on top of their teaching salary to coach the team. When, for whatever reason, they can’t find a teacher willing to do it, they may hire someone outside…but that person will often be working almost as a volunteer (literally a couple grand designed to defray his expenses for hundreds and hundreds of hours of work.) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/49 "2021-06-03T14:07:25Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > So, it seems clear he wasn’t being punished he was a Hebrew Israelite, but because he missed a _voluntary_ workout. Which is abusive and inexcusable, but not anti-Semitism. - The coach needs to look up the definition of voluntary. He’s now seen (I hope) as deceitful, abusive, a man who doesn’t keep his word and is not to be trusted. Doubt it, though. After all, he’s a Football Coach. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/50 "2021-06-03T14:10:20Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Those coaches are real pieces of work, I tell ya. I read this as “real pieces of pork”. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/51 "2021-06-03T14:13:23Z")
The real dumb thing about this is there is just zero reason to introduce “weird” discipline like this. I played sports in High School decades ago, and the standard punishment for acting up was being yelled at to start running laps. You run a lot in any High School sport, having to run extra punishment laps is pretty much universally disliked and isn’t going to run you afoul of any legal trouble as a coach. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/52 "2021-06-03T14:18:06Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Look, this story is weird no matter how you slice it. But, again, we only have second hand accounts from one side The articles cited so far all seem so third hand, lacking in detail, and extremely telephone-gamed that I am not confident we know what happened at all. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/53 "2021-06-03T14:24:49Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The articles cited so far all seem so third hand, lacking in detail, and extremely telephone-gamed that I am not confident we know what happened at all. I agree to an extent, but see the article @Slow_Moving_Vehicle linked: > **[Canton McKinley High School football coaches to face further discipline,...](https://www.cantonrep.com/story/news/2021/06/02/canton-superintendent-mckinley-hs-football-coaches-disciplined/7511977002/)** > > The coaches also could face criminal hazing charges after Canton police open an investigation. It’s much better than the earlier articles, and it indicates the school’s internal investigation seems to broadly support the student’s account. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/54 "2021-06-03T14:27:46Z")
I don’t think it was the instigating factor. The instigating factor was, I think, a power play - hazing - to exert control. Once he said he didn’t eat pork for religious reasons - and used Jewish terms to define his religion, anti-Semitism comes into play. Oredigger - the point is, you can successfully run a high school football team with two coaches - if success is defined as giving kids a chance to play sports. Eight coaches is a sign that you are defining success as winning - which has no place in a high school sports program despite the American cultural insistence that it does. Defining high school sports success as winning leads to incidents of abuse within the system. It leads to a prioritization of sports over academics within the system - and kids aren’t in school to be athletes. I know I’m spitting in the wind - but the sort of emphasis on sports that requires eight coaches belongs in private sports clubs - not public high schools. The reason that we have a hard time fielding a team is that parents have become concerned over concussions. That we are willing to risk our kids brains for our entertainment (and in the case of a lot of these programs, its the brains of black kids we risk), is disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/55 "2021-06-03T14:35:29Z")
I would strongly disagree that there’s any intrinsic problems to having a big football program at the High School level that cares about wins and losses. Abuse happens in youth sports of all levels of “seriousness”, abusive people should not be allowed to be coaches. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/56 "2021-06-03T14:45:16Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Around where I’ve lived frequently the head football coach is a teacher, and only makes a few grand a year on top of their teaching salary to coach the team. When, for whatever reason, they can’t find a teacher willing to do it, they may hire someone outside…but that person will often be working almost as a volunteer (literally a couple grand designed to defray his expenses for hundreds and hundreds of hours of work.) That’s the way it was at my high school, in relatively football-crazed Georgia. There were multiple coaches, but they were all teachers, as well. Nor were they necessarily bad ones, either - one of the best algebra teachers I ever had was an assistant coach, and, though I never took a class with him to find out, the head coach was supposed to be a good history teacher. For that matter, the head of the JV team, who was also a position coach for the varsity, was hands-down one of the best teachers I ever encountered in my academic career - passionate, involved, cared deeply about motivating his students. > [@RickJay](#): > > The articles cited so far all seem so third hand, lacking in detail, and extremely telephone-gamed that I am not confident we know what happened at all. For what it’s worth, the latest story I posted came from the _Canton Repository_, which I assume is the local newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/57 "2021-06-03T15:30:36Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > That being said though, typically a program even of this size, it’s not unusual that the head coach is an actual hired full time coach probably making $50-60k+ a year only for coaching, and one or both of his coordinators might have “real salaries” too. It’s possible all of them do some work outside the team though as you’ll have free time outside of the season. But even at this school it’s highly unlikely the rest of the coaches are paid much, they are probably getting a few thousand dollars a season. In Ohio, all coaches have to also be teachers. They often teach easy classes that don’t require much effort on the part of either the students of the teachers. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/58 "2021-06-03T15:36:20Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > In Ohio, all coaches have to also be teachers. They often teach easy classes that don’t require much effort on the part of either the students of the teachers. According to this article from 2 years ago [announcing the head coach’s hiring](https://www.cantonrep.com/news/20190408/marcus-wattley-officially-hired-as-mckinley-head-football-coach), he gets paid $9167 per year to be a coach, and $79,867 to be the “academic and athletic liaison for grades 6-12”. Which I’m certain is a very important and demanding job, and not at all a sinecure. Actually, if anything, it’s good they created some bullshit job for him, instead of having him actually teaching classes. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/59 "2021-06-03T15:36:20Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Out of curiosity, I’m trying to figure out how many football coaches my old HS had/has. [Looks like maybe three](https://www.independentmail.com/story/sports/2020/05/12/palmetto-high-sc-making-changes-coaching-staffs-during-coronavirus-pandemic/3080648001/)? Ha! I have no idea how many coaches my high school had, but we were not a successful sports school. Some years the only team we beat in football was Beverly Hills. Then, they moved us to a different division (league?) when I was a senior, so we didn’t have that sure win anymore, but we didn’t have to play Morningside, at least! Oh, and my high school had a 60% Jewish enrollment when I was attending, so no coach would even dare to think of a punishment like that. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507/60 "2021-06-03T15:39:36Z")
There is a difference between caring about wins and losses, and defining success as winning. The former is just about doing your best, and trying to win. The latter is about prioritizing winning at the cost of the health and academics of the athletes. If you define success by winning, then there was only one successful football team per division in the whole state, and the rest of the teams were failures. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-mckinley-high-school-football-coaches-of-canton-ohio/943507.md?page=4)