# I pit the Michigan $2M lottery winner who continues to use food stamps. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503 "2011-05-19T21:17:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503/41 "2011-05-20T18:01:29Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > More likely it will be pointed to as an example of a “welfare king” in an attempt to scrap the whole safety net system. Despite the fact that this situation is truly exceptional. Welfare Queen was Reagans fabrication. He pointed out the people who live in luxury and still collect welfare in a speech. The New York Times spent 6 months trying to track down an example and failed. But the concept still hangs on. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503/42 "2011-05-20T18:07:26Z")
If you can afford lottery tickets, you can afford to pay for your own damn food. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503/43 "2011-05-20T18:15:06Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > My understanding is that the law is specifically crafted to only count income and not assets so that you don’t wind up with stupid cases like “you can’t get food stamps until you sell your house”. I work full-time. I don’t own a home; I rent. I buy my own food. I pay for both, as well as some of the taxes that fund TANF, with the earnings from my job. And I don’t think telling a homeowner that maybe they have to liquidate that home (or at least put a lien on it for the value of the benefits) if they can’t afford to buy groceries is a “stupid case.” I think it is a completely appropriate application of the principle that one pays what one can before turning to public assistance. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503/44 "2011-05-20T18:21:20Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Cite? That seems like a ridiculously low bar; so low that I wouldn’t believe it. $2000 in any liquid form, and you’re disqualified for food stamps? So, if I manage to save up $2000 over the course of a year or so (about two months living expenses), I go off food stamps, even if my income hasn’t changed? What’s the point? This is not true in Florida, for example. I knew someone there who kept getting food stamps with ~$50,000 in the bank. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503/45 "2011-05-20T18:27:47Z")
> [@furt](#): > > This is not true in Florida, for example. I knew someone there who kept getting food stamps with ~$50,000 in the bank. States can alter the requirements to some degree. Michigan does not limit your bank account. Some states do. Some states had a requirement your car could not be worth more that 1650 bucks. Most states got rid of that requirement. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503/46 "2011-05-20T18:40:18Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > I work full-time. I don’t own a home; I rent. I buy my own food. I pay for both, as well as some of the taxes that fund TANF, with the earnings from my job. > > And I don’t think telling a homeowner that maybe they have to liquidate that home (or at least put a lien on it for the value of the benefits) if they can’t afford to buy groceries is a “stupid case.” I think it is a completely appropriate application of the principle that one pays what one can before turning to public assistance. _nods_ If that’s the principle, that’s fine. However, the scenario in my head is “if they sell their home, then I also have to pay for their Section 8. And if they sell their car, I have to subsidize their bus travel.” Basically, not requiring people to sell illiquid assets accomplishes two things: 1) causes them to need less aid overall, and 2) puts the typical temporary recipient of assistance back on their feet that much sooner. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503/47 "2011-05-20T18:52:04Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > _nods_ If that’s the principle, that’s fine. However, the scenario in my head is “if they sell their home, then I also have to pay for their Section 8. And if they sell their car, I have to subsidize their bus travel.” Basically, not requiring people to sell illiquid assets accomplishes two things: 1) causes them to need less aid overall, and 2) puts the typical temporary recipient of assistance back on their feet that much sooner. Well, I think if they sold a home, they should have enough to pay for rent and a bus for a little while. Supposing they only had a bit of equity, and not enough to do those things, I don’t know how they would make their mortgage payments. Perhaps they were just going to miss them and be foreclosed upon. At any rate, I don’t think the solution is to privilege home ownership or car ownership. We can set a relatively small amount as a benefits recipient’s exempt amount of all assets (let’s say $10K) and let them figure out what form to keep those assets in: cash in a bank account, equity in a home or a vehicle, whatever. This has the advantage of not punishing anybody who chooses not to buy a home or a car and it doesn’t distort financial decisions. If homes are exmempt, than it makes sense to plow as much money as you can in your home (this kind of pre-petition planning is seen in bankruptcy in states with generous homestead exemptions). As to the liquidity of the assets, I’d be fine with the state putting a lien on the home. Then the recipient doesn’t have to sell or move out, and the state can recoup its expenditure at the time the home is sold. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503/48 "2011-05-20T18:59:44Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > As to the liquidity of the assets, I’d be fine with the state putting a lien on the home. Then the recipient doesn’t have to sell or move out, and the state can recoup its expenditure at the time the home is sold. While I don’t necessarily agree with the discussion above concerning incentivization, this lien strategy seems a pretty good compromise between our two positions. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503/49 "2011-05-20T19:09:39Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://dss.sd.gov/foodstamps/eligibility/](http://dss.sd.gov/foodstamps/eligibility/) > This one is S. Dakota. i saw several states , all the same. That seems to contradict a quote in the article linked in the OP: > [@](#): > > Jones contacted DHS officials Monday about Fick’s case, and was told the department’s hands were tied by federal regulations. > > “There is no liquid asset requirement for getting food stamps,” Jones said. “The department is asking the federal government for an immediate change (in policy). They’re hoping this case will help the federal government act.” > > Until then, Fick can collect food stamps and keep his lottery winnings in the bank. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503/50 "2011-05-20T19:14:52Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > While I don’t necessarily agree with the discussion above concerning incentivization, this lien strategy seems a pretty good compromise between our two positions. I agree: I don’t think a family of six who are living in a $30,000 house they inherited from Grandma should be forced to sell it because Dad got laid off: it’d be causing permanent financial instability and make the family much more likely to go back on welfare in the future. It would be especially bad during times of high cyclical unemployment, where suddenly lots of people would be putting beat-up, POS houses on the market, killing what would already be a sluggish market (and what would those people do for food while waiting for the house to sell?) and driving low housing prices lower–but of course they’d still own the last assessed value of the home, even if that value had become totally unrealistic. A lien–especially one you could buy out early–would be a reasonable way to give people temporary relief and serve as a strong incentive not to keep going back on food stamps, but would not have the destabilizing impact of forcing all home owners to sell. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503/51 "2011-05-20T21:34:59Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > If you can afford lottery tickets, you can afford to pay for your own damn food. Do food stamps come out of state or federal taxes? If it’s state, he sorta is paying for his own damn food - or at least a portion of it. ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503/52 "2011-05-20T21:51:26Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > Do food stamps come out of state or federal taxes? If it’s state, he sorta is paying for his own damn food - or at least a portion of it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503/53 "2011-05-20T22:59:04Z")
Agreed that the guy seems like a scumbag – though if he chose (or was required) to take his winnings paid out over a 20- or 30-year plan, well, what’s left after taxes on $2,000,000 spread out may not bring him above the poverty level. Second, “windfall” income is explicitly exempted because of things like a great aunt leaving you a $500 bequest – a wonderful way to pay off debts or buy needed-but-unaffordable household goods in the immediate term, but not a real change in your life state. If someone loses an allocation of $100/month in food stamps permanently owing to cashing in a winning $100 lottery ticket – well, you can see the problem. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503/54 "2011-05-21T16:00:23Z")
> [@the lone cashew](#): > > :rolleyes: I know, I know. ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503/55 "2011-05-21T18:09:56Z")
Maybe I should have given you more credit. I mean, you were just joking. Right? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503/56 "2011-05-21T18:34:49Z")
> [@the lone cashew](#): > > Maybe I should have given you more credit. I mean, you were just joking. Right? > 😉 Depends on your definition, I suppose. My statement was partially fact, but not meant in any seriousness. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503/57 "2011-05-21T20:08:47Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > My understanding is that the law is specifically crafted to only count income and not assets so that you don’t wind up with stupid cases like “you can’t get food stamps until you sell your house”. > > The fault here, if any, is with a law that counts lottery winnings as anything other than income. That’s a really odd law. What’s the reasoning behind it? I must be missing something. What Polycarp and others said makes a difference though - if he is getting it paid as an annuity and has huge debts, he might need those food stamps. Easy to assume that the money is actually his. Especially since this sort of story tends to get sent worldwide - in the UK, that money _would_ all be his, tax free. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503/58 "2011-05-21T20:40:21Z")
I believe he took the cash and put it in the bank. In some states, money in the bank is not counted. In others it is. Apparently in Michigan it is not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-michigan-2m-lottery-winner-who-continues-to-use-food-stamps/582503.md?page=2)