# I pit the naive, optimistic idiots, the Pollyannas, weasel-wordy authorities and bad planners associated with the pandemic **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 21, 2021, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437 "2021-12-21T21:28:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/41 "2021-12-22T20:08:16Z")
> [@Tfletch1](#): > > Israel got to 52% fully-vaxxed before everyone else and stalled. They eventually creeped up to 63%, but that’s not much better than the US and definitely not good enough to stop a surge without major restrictions. Now they’re offering a fourth dose but they still have a lot of unvaccinated people. Yeah, [as of two days ago the percentage of fully-vaccinated Israelis was still under 64%](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=vaccination+rate+israel&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8). That’s not enough to achieve herd immunity or stop new-variant surges, by any standard. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Merely a recognising of the hard fact that, no matter what a country does, Covid cannot be avoided. Nobody’s saying that Covid can be entirely avoided or that New Zealand somehow magically entirely avoided it. But Banquet\_Bear is right that New Zealand used a much more successful approach to containing it. And no, it wasn’t just New Zealand’s geographical status as a small isolated island nation that made that possible. They were mostly just smarter, faster, more consistent, [better with the messaging](https://www.dezeen.com/2020/03/22/coronavirus-animations-toby-morris-siouxsie-wiles-design-graphics/), better informed, and less politically divisive and manipulative. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/42 "2021-12-22T20:14:54Z")
Certainly, being an island nation made it easier. Even if we had done everything right, the US or other mainland countries probably couldn’t have done as well as New Zealand. But even allowing for that, they still did better than most of the world, and got better results than, say, the UK or Japan. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2021, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/43 "2021-12-22T22:10:23Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > You should apologize. …fuck off. Bobble has been trolling me for a very long time, on this topic and others. He is being intentionally disingenuous here. I can’t be bothered with his bullshit any more. Our response is not “doomed to failure.” We don’t have to accept that people are going to die. We don’t have to recalibrate and realign our expectations. We will continue to do what we have done, and try to stop as many people from dying from Covid as we can. Bobble fundamentally doesn’t understand what we’ve done, and wants us to give up so we can “join the rest of the world.” We aren’t going to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2021, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/44 "2021-12-22T22:38:31Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …fuck off. Bobble has been trolling me for a very long time, on this topic and others. He is being intentionally disingenuous here. I can’t be bothered with his bullshit any more. You have an idiosyncratic concept of “trolling” and are imaging attention from me that simply doesn’t exist. You extol the virtues of what NZ has done and react with vitriol at anyone daring to comment on it. I’ve been nothing but complimentary and polite, which seems to infuriate you for some reason. I was purposefully very complimentary about NZ’s response because it has been excellent. The very reason for pointing to it was to use it as an example of the very best response that can be mustered because if people are expecting an end to covid to resemble something better than that then they are bound for dissapointment. It seems like even praise is now seen as criticism in your eyes. That’s not a fair bar to set for anyone wishing to contribute and to comment on this subject. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Our response is not “doomed to failure.” But that is not what I said. I said that an expectation of perfection was doomed to failure. here, let me help > You managed to be “excellent” in a world where “perfect” is unobtainable and if that “perfect” is the considered the marker by which we judge the end of this then that is ultimately doomed to failure. People’s expectations need recalibration. You are imagining criticism where none exists and purposefully ignoring freely given and sincerely meant praise. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2021, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/45 "2021-12-22T22:43:47Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Nobody’s saying that Covid can be entirely avoided or that New Zealand somehow magically entirely avoided it. But Banquet\_Bear is right that New Zealand used a much more successful approach to containing it. In my very first post in this thread I stated that NZ had made > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > the most successful attempt in the world at doing just that. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2021, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/46 "2021-12-22T23:06:42Z")
I’m just glad that the individuals who comprise the Straight Dope community are still able to set aside their differences and support a softball pitting like the OP without devolving into petty squabbling about some odd thing or another. I do believe if the rest of the world could only follow our enlightened example this little virus would truly be history in short order. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2021, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/47 "2021-12-22T23:14:19Z")
Amen. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/48 "2021-12-23T02:09:59Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > I’m just glad that the individuals who comprise the Straight Dope community are still able to set aside their differences and support a softball pitting like the OP without devolving into petty squabbling about some odd thing or another. I do believe if the rest of the world could only follow our enlightened example this little virus would truly be history in short order. Piss off, you. (just kidding. Love you man!) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/49 "2021-12-23T04:59:32Z")
Hey, hey, HEY! Do you know who he _is_? His name is **Inigo Montoya**. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/50 "2021-12-23T06:48:58Z")
If you point a finger at Inigo Montoya, then that’s 4 fingers pointing back at you. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/51 "2021-12-23T07:05:34Z")
Or five. In which case you’d _really_ get a talking-to. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/52 "2021-12-23T07:27:31Z")
A seven-fingered man? Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/53 "2021-12-23T07:48:47Z")
Huh, I’d thought the standard for five fingered hands _was_ four: three and the thumb. It seemed to make the phrase feel like it made more sense. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/54 "2021-12-23T10:31:40Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Sad thing is, coronavirus isn’t even all that bad compared to some of the stuff that scientists can tinker with The fact that substances exist (biological and otherwise) that are more lethal than SARS-CoV-2 is no reason to treat the coronavirus like it’s no problem. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_McQwark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@Steve\_McQwark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_McQwark)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/55 "2021-12-23T12:18:27Z")
As noted by famed lyricist and anatomist, Mark Knopfler, “When you point your finger cuz your plan fell through, you’ve got three more fingers pointing back at you.” I don’t see how we could get a more definitive answer than that. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/56 "2021-12-23T14:56:36Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Huh, I’d thought the standard for five fingered hands _was_ four: three and the thumb. It seemed to make the phrase feel like it made more sense. Point with your index finger and look at the direction your thumb is pointing. If it’s pointing backwards then you have some hideously bad arthritis. [![](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6a/c4/1b/6ac41b696434311a936895a135e5b6a9.png) ](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6a/c4/1b/6ac41b696434311a936895a135e5b6a9.png) ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/57 "2021-12-23T14:56:54Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I fully approve of, endorse, subscribe to and heartily second this rant, **velomont**. Thank you for that - greatly appreciated And Horatius’ comment here is a nice synopsis of what I’m ranting about: _And yet, almost two years into this, I still see shitposting from people about, “OMG, I’m soooo confused, last month they said X, now they’re saying Y?!? Whatever am I supposed to do?!?!?”_ The epidemiology may be brutally complex but what we, as individuals have to deal with, isn’t: ･Vaccines are much, much more effective than no vaccines; and ･it’s spread as an aerosol. There it is; it’s not difficult and it doesn’t change, regardless of what the PM, or president, or mayor, or municipal counsellor says. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/58 "2021-12-23T17:11:58Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Those were the days when people lined up like this to get their shots. There are living members of this very message board who remember this: Yeah, me. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/59 "2021-12-25T16:55:44Z")
Until the entire planet is vaccinated every person, and every level of business and government should be assuming that this is permanent and capable of getting far, far worse and acting accordingly. This doesn’t necessarily mean some permanent lockdown situation either. But it could mean such things as reducing taxes for hospitality businesses, amending bylaws so that restaurants could set up pop-up take-out stands in parks or wherever, or set up terraces and patios year-round, and establishing massive production and stockpiling of good masks, test kits, and whatever other related materiel, instead of going to panic stations at the last minute because everyone assumed, during the last lull, that the pandemic was as good as over. The vaccinated world should be working to come up with holistic approaches based on the assumption that there are going to be waves and lulls, with some waves being really, really nasty, for a long, long time. It should be possible to “policy” our way into a position such that some employees don’t have to worry about losing a living wage or possible homelessness every time a wave hits; or so that front-line health care workers don’t have to assume that burn-out and PTSD are now part of the job. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/60 "2021-12-25T17:04:28Z")
> [@Steve\_McQwark](#): > > As noted by famed lyricist and anatomist, Mark Knopfler, “When you point your finger cuz your plan fell through, you’ve got three more fingers pointing back at you.” Not true if you hold your arm out at an angle to point; then those three fingers are pointing elsewhere. Or you could practice pointing with three fingers at a ninety-degree angle to the index finger. More trouble than it’s worth, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437.md?page=4)