# I pit the naive, optimistic idiots, the Pollyannas, weasel-wordy authorities and bad planners associated with the pandemic **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 21, 2021, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437 "2021-12-21T21:28:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/61 "2021-12-25T18:10:21Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think I’ll just leave this hijack here. > > I have said that NZ was the best response in the world but that they were unable to achieve the impossible (i.e. keeping covid out of circulation). > > If you choose to take that as criticism then that’s on you, I’m not sure there is anywhere to go from there and it is all a sidetrack to my point which…to summarise and de-nationalise it is… > that the very best responses cannot get rid of covid and any expectation around the world that it only ends when we do achieve that is doomed to failure and never-ending rainbow-chasing. Recalibration and realignment of expectations is needed. First off, it only makes sense to make a point like that if you are accusing someone else of holding the opposite position. In the context of replying to a poster talking about New Zealand’s response, the implication is that you are accusing New Zealand of holding that position. Hence why @Banquet_Bear pointed out that NZ has never held the position you argued against. Hell, his post already mentioned that NZ had switched from “elimination” to “aggressive suppression.” Second, it’s not remotely all you said. You also were defending this argument: “What is the point of vaccinations, treatments and restrictions if there is no end in sight?” The answer is pretty obvious. The first two are things that were always going to last forever, and the reason we do them is to save lives. No one says that flu vaccines or treatments are pointless because we don’t think we’ll ever eliminate the flu. The restrictions are intended to be temporary. And all but the least onerous have been. Yes, we’re hitting another round of lockdowns due to omicron, but that was after the lockdowns had let up for a while. The main restrictions in place before that were wearing a mask and vaccine requirements, both of which are easy. The latter is even something that was going to wind up being required anyways, just like with similar illnesses. The “argument” is just one of emotion, due to people feeling burnt out and tired. It’s only been two years, but it feels like forever. I’m sympathetic to the feeling. But the last thing we should do is encourage that type of thinking. The reason people don’t see an end in sight is **because** people are giving up. So, no, I can’t agree that it is a valid argument. There is a point to vaccinations, treatments, and even restrictions even if people are feeling despair due to not seeing an end in sight. There will be an end, and the point is to weather the storm. In fact, I’d argue that defending that argument is a bad thing. People feel like they want to give up, so the last thing we should do is make it seem like a justified option. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/62 "2021-12-25T19:01:51Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > > …fuck off. Bobble has been trolling me for a very long time, on this topic and others. He is being intentionally disingenuous here. I can’t be bothered with his bullshit any more. > > You have an idiosyncratic concept of “trolling” and are imaging attention from me that simply doesn’t exist. > You extol the virtues of what NZ has done and react with vitriol at anyone daring to comment on it. I’ve been nothing but complimentary and polite, which seems to infuriate you for some reason. This, on the other hand, is disingenuous. You have not been polite about this. Sure, it’s not like BB has been, either. But he also hasn’t claimed to be. And your posts do not consist entirely of praise, either. He is not seeing praise as criticism. He’s responding to the rest of your post. You said shit that kinda pissed me off, too. Hence why my second point above is so much bigger than my first. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/63 "2021-12-25T19:03:17Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You also were defending this argument: “What is the point of vaccinations, treatments and restrictions if there is no end in sight?” no I was not I am on record as a champion of vaccinations and treatments and suitable restrictions. Try again. My point was crystal clear when I said. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > the very best responses cannot get rid of covid and any expectation around the world that it only ends when we do achieve that is doomed to failure and never-ending rainbow-chasing. Recalibration and realignment of expectations is needed. You even quoted that in your response to me. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/64 "2021-12-25T19:06:36Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And your posts do not consist entirely of praise where do I criticise NZ’s response? Quote me. Where is my impoliteness? Quote me You hint that there is criticism in there somewhere, You are obviously able to use the quote function and yet are unable to quote the bit where I criticise NZ. If you could, you would. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2021, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/65 "2021-12-25T23:43:08Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > […] instead of going to panic stations at the last minute because everyone assumed, during the last lull, that the pandemic was as good as over. > > The vaccinated world should be working to come up with holistic approaches based on the assumption that there are going to be waves and lulls, with some waves being really, really nasty, for a long, long time. > > It should be possible to “policy” our way into a position such that some employees don’t have to worry about losing a living wage or possible homelessness every time a wave hits; or so that front-line health care workers don’t have to assume that burn-out and PTSD are now part of the job. I believe this is an important statement. Readiness provisions are important so that not every incident is a generalized crisis. ISTM there’s some sort of collective mental block at work tied to a notion that somehow this all just _ **goes away** _ and we’re back to the world of Spring 2019 and we all uninstall Zoom and make a Bonfire of the Facemasks. One thing I have noticed is that for all the calls to “flatten the curve, so as not to collapse the system” there have not been that much work done, as you state, to make it so that the system itself is **harder to collapse**. Make it so that we’re not having to go back into crisis mode at _every_ wave and surge. It’s as of policy and decision makers are still more scared of finding themselves in the _“then just like that it went away, and we did all that work and spent all that money for nothing”_ scenario. > [@BigT](#): > > The “argument” is just one of emotion, due to people feeling burnt out and tired. It’s only been two years, but it feels like forever. I’m sympathetic to the feeling. But the last thing we should do is encourage that type of thinking. The reason people don’t see an end in sight is **because** people are giving up. > > So, no, I can’t agree that it is a valid argument. There is a point to vaccinations, treatments, and even restrictions even if people are feeling despair due to not seeing an end in sight. There will be an end, and the point is to weather the storm. Yes, but how do we keep people from giving up, from despairing? That’s the challenge right now. And in many situations where you need to help people get a grip on their despair, it is important that we communicate _“yes, I understand how you are feeling and why; your emotions are a real thing, you really are hurting, it’s natural that you’d be feeling that way; but here’s why and how it CAN and WILL get better: \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_”._ ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/66 "2021-12-26T00:09:12Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I’m not a fan of tyranny in general, but if there were ever a time for one, pandemic would have been it. Mandatory vaccines injections, masks, distancing, weekly testing for all, from the beginning to the end. Something of this nature - though obviously not real “tyranny” - is necessary. FFS here in Quebec almost two years to pretend to get serious about protesters interfering with health care facilities; and it’s not enough. If there is a mob of 30 or 40 people blocking the entrance of a covid clinic, and harassing staff, patients and visitors, then corral them and imprison them until trial and then sentence them to 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/67 "2021-12-26T00:12:02Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > _here’s why and how it CAN and WILL get better_ Turns out _wear a fucking mask and get your fucking vaccine_ doesn’t go over that well with folks that make two year olds look well behaved. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/68 "2021-12-26T02:33:49Z")
But also, when the between-waves lull kicks in, _it’s not over yet_ doesn’t seem to go over well either. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/69 "2021-12-26T16:31:08Z")
The notion that the instant that they are told the facts people will just go right ahead and do what the experts say they should, sounds like a no-brainer to all of _ **us** , here_, but it’s \*&^%$# surprisingly hard to make happen IRL (and remember that applies to _general policy making_, not just to individuals). > [@velomont](#): > > But also, when the between-waves lull kicks in, _it’s not over yet_ doesn’t seem to go over well either. Yeah, **that** ’s the one that’s hard to get in through the apparent obsession to have it just be over (and to be seen as the one on whose watch it was finished). During the lull is when you should be taking mitigation measures to lessen the effect of later waves, but it is exactly when everyone is saying _“oh, come on, let us ease off!!”_ ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/70 "2021-12-26T16:37:51Z")
You don’t start the barbecue when the eye of the storm is passing overhead. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/71 "2021-12-26T18:58:59Z")
Very well put Snowboarder\_Bo. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/72 "2021-12-26T19:15:16Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > You don’t start the barbecue when the eye of the storm is passing overhead. You say that, but you’re describing Thanksgiving 1991, where we cooked dinner on a BBQ outside during the lull of a typhoon. (Power was out.) I was living on Guam at the time. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/73 "2021-12-26T19:25:23Z")
Why would you imprison mostly peaceful protestors? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/74 "2021-12-26T19:38:19Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why would you imprison mostly peaceful protestors? He said they were “blocking the entrance of a covid clinic”. Regardless of whether they’re protesting, or whether they’re doing it peacefully, I object to them _blocking the entrance of a covid clinic_, and would respond accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/75 "2021-12-26T21:27:32Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why would you imprison mostly peaceful protestors In the early days of COVID vaccines, protesters at a Montreal vaxx clinic actually caused it to be shut down for a few hours. That’s an example of what I’m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/76 "2021-12-27T08:14:04Z")
Blocking and closing down essential services is a very common tactic of “peaceful” protesters on the left. The people blocking these vaccine centres should be treated exactly the same way as people blocking roads and other services at BLM “protests”. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/77 "2021-12-27T09:17:13Z")
Tear gas and rubber bullets it is then! ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/78 "2021-12-27T16:10:09Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Blocking and closing down essential services is a very common tactic of “peaceful” protesters on the left. The people blocking these vaccine centres should be treated exactly the same way as people blocking roads and other services at BLM “protests”. I actually agree with this. There is nothing peaceful about blocking essential services. I know that I’ve seen arguments that those tactics are necessary, otherwise people will be ignored, but fuck that shit. Rubber bullets and tear gas aren’t warranted but there are other ways to disperse people. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/79 "2021-12-28T00:06:20Z")
My family and I got stuck in a protest in downtown Sacramento a few years ago. I was not at all afraid, which surprised me, but getting out of that mess was a pain in the bupkis. They were protesting the Stephon Clark shooting and were blocking a main intersection. So, I’m with you guys. I wish protestors would sit down or something so that the bad actors would be very obvious. It would be more difficult for one side to claim “the other side” did the violent things. Yes, I also want a pony. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437/80 "2021-12-28T01:30:59Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Tear gas and rubber bullets it is then! Hmmm… (Siri, record: get together with lab staff to look into what would be needed for research into vaccine formulation that can be administered via water cannon) 🤪 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-optimistic-idiots-the-pollyannas-weasel-wordy-authorities-and-bad-planners-associated-with-the-pandemic/956437.md?page=5)