# I pit the naive "the system is EVIL!" nihlists who post here
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [February 6, 2010, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878 "2010-02-06T02:20:49Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/1 "2010-02-06T02:20:49Z")
Most prominently, **lurking guest** ’s [A Resounding Silence…](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=550737), and **adhay** ’s [A Reasonable Political, Economic and Social Response To Peak Oil? (and global warming, health care)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=550811).
Guys, do you really have no idea how _shopworn_ your ideas sound? We’ve heard it all before; your rhetoric could be taken almost unchanged from the ranting of 1960’s radicals, except for the exact slogans (Power to the People! Fight the Power! Up Against the Wall!). And worst of all is when you denounce the “sheep” for not instantly agreeing with you- we must either have no political conciousness or we’re collaborators with the opressors!
Life is a little more complicated than a morality play, and maybe, just MAYBE it isn’t as simple as you paint it.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/2 "2010-02-06T02:39:01Z")
> [@Lumpy](#):
>
> your rhetoric could be taken almost unchanged from the ranting of 1960’s radicals,…
While we’re at it, could the Reagan worshippers and free market Libertarians also open up a big box of STFU?
-to say nothing of neocons…
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### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/3 "2010-02-06T02:49:39Z")
Wait, we have neocons? Who?
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### Author:  [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/4 "2010-02-06T03:49:40Z")
I think it is completely reasonable to plan for a future that involves high prices for oil.
Sure, using the word “moral” to justify a course action might be inappropriate - especially when the term can mean different things to different people. Even so, it is a conversation worth having. If your only retort to a concern for the future is “yeah well people have been saying that for a while” you aren’t listening. There are some serious problems ahead of us, and idiots who dismiss them offhand are going to plow us right into them.
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### Author:  [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/5 "2010-02-06T04:20:25Z")
> [@Lumpy](#):
>
> Life is a little more complicated than a morality play, and maybe, just MAYBE it isn’t as simple as you paint it.
You’ll be the _first_ against the wall, you classist traitor of the proletariat!
j/k
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### Author:  [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/6 "2010-02-06T06:10:02Z")
What I believe is Good, Morale, and absolutely Correct.
People who don’t believe what I believe are Evil, Immoral, Stupid, Corrupt and WRONG WRONG WRONG. They should all either be killed or be forced to believe what I believe.
Even when I don’t have the slightest clue what the fuck I’m talking about.
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### Author:  [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/7 "2010-02-06T06:52:36Z")
> [@Lumpy](#):
>
> Guys, do you really have no idea how _shopworn_ your ideas sound? We’ve heard it all before; your rhetoric could be taken almost unchanged from the ranting of 1960’s radicals
“Everything that was old is new again.” 🆒
Were **lurking guest** ’s posts naive? Yes. But also refreshing. It needs saying every so often.
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### Author:  [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/8 "2010-02-06T07:28:11Z")
[QUOTE=Hero From Sector 7G]
I think it is completely reasonable to plan for a future that involves high prices for oil.
[/QUOTE]
By buying up all the oil and storing it under ground? Get serious.
> [@](#):
>
> Sure, using the word “moral” to justify a course action might be inappropriate - especially when the term can mean different things to different people. Even so, it is a conversation worth having. If your only retort to a concern for the future is “yeah well people have been saying that for a while” you aren’t listening. There are some serious problems ahead of us, and idiots who dismiss them offhand are going to plow us right into them.
And idiots who try to exaggerate them while also not understanding the first thing about about the subject, about how markets work, and to be honest are out of touch with reality as we know it are properly derided for spewing their silly beliefs in GD. There have been (and probably will be in the future) real, serious discussions on the subject of dwindling oil reserves and alternative technologies and how both things (and a bunch more) will effect the various markets, but adhay’s screed was really worth nothing more than a couple of brief chuckles.
-XT
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### Author:  [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/9 "2010-02-06T14:06:24Z")
> [@Lumpy](#):
>
> Most prominently, **lurking guest** ’s [A Resounding Silence…](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=550737), and **adhay** ’s [A Reasonable Political, Economic and Social Response To Peak Oil? (and global warming, health care)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=550811)…And worst of all is when you denounce the “sheep” for not instantly agreeing with you- we must either have no political conciousness or we’re collaborators with the opressors!
Just sayin’.
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### Author:  [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/10 "2010-02-06T16:22:45Z")
Dunno, _man_. What if the system _is_ evil? What if maybe, just maybe, a system where people steer half ton vehicles powered by dead dinosaurs so they can go to work making advertisements isn’t _the best possible system we can come up with_?
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/11 "2010-02-06T18:53:30Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#):
>
> Dunno, _man_. What if the system _is_ evil? What if maybe, just maybe, a system where people steer half ton vehicles powered by dead dinosaurs so they can go to work making advertisements isn’t _the best possible system we can come up with_?
Fair enough, but what’s the alternative? A centrally directed command economy? Sumptuary laws? If you think that the _hoi polloi_ are blind and ignorant, they’re positively geniuses compared to your average bureaucracy. The track record of would-be philosopher kings telling the peasants what’s good for them is dismal.
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### Author:  [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/12 "2010-02-06T19:15:47Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#):
>
> Dunno, _man_. What if the system _is_ evil? What if maybe, just maybe, a system where people steer half ton vehicles powered by dead dinosaurs so they can go to work making advertisements isn’t _the best possible system we can come up with_?
I highly suspect it actually IS the best system we can come up with.
Have a happy day.
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### Author:  [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/13 "2010-02-06T19:27:00Z")
> [@xtisme](#):
>
> By buying up all the oil and storing it under ground? Get serious.
[DOE](http://fossil.energy.gov/programs/reserves/spr/) is quite serious about it. I’m just saying ratchet up the program and start conserving and belt-tightening big time.
> [@](#):
>
> And idiots who try to exaggerate them …
I’d like your comments on this.[“Arithmetic, Population and Energy”](http://www.type1civilization.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4:drbartlett&catid=10:video)
> [@](#):
>
> … while also not understanding the first thing about about the subject, about how markets work, and to be honest are out of touch with reality as we know it are properly derided for spewing their silly beliefs in GD.
Our markets are geared toward expanding consumption and profiteering. That’s fucking out of touch with reality.
> [@](#):
>
> There have been (and probably will be in the future) real, serious discussions on the subject of dwindling oil reserves and alternative technologies and how both things (and a bunch more) will effect the various markets, but adhay’s screed was really worth nothing more than a couple of brief chuckles.
>
> -XT
The insight you bring to this particular discussion would pure lol if the inevitable results were not catastrophic. Times are changing.
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### Author:  [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/14 "2010-02-06T19:34:41Z")
Say what you want about National Socialism, Dude, at least it’s an ethos.
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### Author:  [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/15 "2010-02-06T20:03:14Z")
Snappy uniforms, too.
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### Author:  [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/16 "2010-02-06T20:03:31Z")
> [@xtisme](#):
>
> There have been (and probably will be in the future) real, serious discussions on the subject of dwindling oil reserves and alternative technologies and how both things (and a bunch more) will effect the various markets, but adhay’s screed was really worth nothing more than a couple of brief chuckles.
Fair enough. I just don’t like it when an issue is dismissed because there are some crazies on one side. **adhay** certainly couches his argument in a lot of moral muck - but he isn’t really wrong. Conservation of the planet’s resources is a reasonable idea for the long-term prosperity of humanity.
Also, Lurking Guest is just plain nutty.
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### Author:  [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/17 "2010-02-06T20:09:34Z")
> [@Lumpy](#):
>
> Most prominently, **lurking guest** ’s [A Resounding Silence…](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=550737)
To be fair, she’s been shown to be a stupid old bat repeatedly.
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### Author:  [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/18 "2010-02-06T21:01:46Z")
I disagree with the OP. I think a system by itself can be evil if it is inherently evil, or if by the actions of the bureaucrats and magistrates in it it becomes evil.
As for inherent evil, let’s take Papa Doc Duvallier’s Haiti. It is a kelptocracy and kept power by terrorizing the population with violence.
The more troubling situation is what we face as a threat here at home: bureaucrats and magistrates making an indifferent system subject to oppression. When policies and facts are daily twisted to hurt and deny some group of people their just due under equal protection and reward others on a hurt the poor/help the rich basis, that can be evil.
I specifically point to the Federalist Society, a political faction of ideological lawyers and judges who systematically rule in favor of the rich and against the poor. A system that allows these conspirators to be members of the bar and bench without question of their political motivations is questionable as evil.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/19 "2010-02-06T21:40:03Z")
> [@Lumpy](#):
>
> I pit the naive “the system is EVIL!” nihlists who post here
I don’t see how **adhay** ’s ideas count as nihilism.
> [@A Reasonable Political, Economic and Social Response To Peak Oil? (and global warming, health care)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-reasonable-political-economic-and-social-response-to-peak-oil-and-global-warming-health-care/527732/1):
>
> 1. Anyone versed in YouTube can tell you that the present exponential increase in population coupled with the soon to come exponential decrease in the availability of oil fueled by the criminal waste of resources (skimmed by their owners-in-arms) in unsocially productive wars will run us ALL into the Ditch, quicktime. Basically, we (the fucking planet) can’t afford the rich.
>
> 2. Change the USA can exemplify to the world?
>
> Once greed is dethroned as virtue, we may progress. I see a cap on net worth tied to minimum wage.
>
> a) Start storing oil. Buy as much as we can, drill responsibly at home and deposit it all in Fuel For Our Kid’s Trust. It’s a limited resource. Let’s name it, claim it and ration it. The rest will follow, 'cause they got kids too.
>
> b) Reduce our usage.
>
> Devote half of our highway lanes to car pools. Hitchiking becomes fashionable, passingthrus are sooner out of town and folks, discovering that they are all in the same boat, will socialize and buy no more car than they need.
>
> Invest heavily in clean alternatives to oil while getting used to rolling brownouts.
>
> The rest? Try me.
[Nihilism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism) isn’t making a proposal you don’t think will work or don’t like.
**lurking guest** ’s idea seem to qualify though; “I propose not replacing government with anything at all…except folks who have something more than their own personal gain at heart.”
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### Author:  [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)
#### Post date: [February 6, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/20 "2010-02-06T21:46:15Z")
Ding-a-ling.
There was a country founded on slavery and indigenous displacement. Those colonists turned pioneers looked at a broad continent blessed with natural resources beyond imagination. Plenty for everyone!
But how to develop it? Jefferson had it right in his first draft, “life, Liberty and the pursuit of Property”. Happiness defined as owning worked while there was plenty to steal and the idea of free-markets backed by corporate trade wars waged under state colors had appeal to the {i]hoi polloi\*. Collateral damage is anything that limits profit.
Yes, unrestrained consumerism is the basis for the shit we look upon today. It’s about time we moved into 22nd century thinking. Namely, that energy-wise, we simply cannot afford the rich … namely, anyone having more than they could conceivably use. Hoarders, against the wall.
Ya think?
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