# I pit the naive "the system is EVIL!" nihlists who post here **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 6, 2010, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878 "2010-02-06T02:20:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/21 "2010-02-06T22:05:06Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Say what you want about National Socialism, Dude, at least it’s an ethos. Once you get beyond Hitler’s corporate financed domestic and foreign wars brought into power by brown shirted tea baggers, he had some good ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/22 "2010-02-06T22:14:23Z")
Loved his dog, too. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/23 "2010-02-06T22:18:48Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > Fair enough. I just don’t like it when an issue is dismissed because there are some crazies on one side. **adhay** certainly couches his argument in a lot of moral muck - but he isn’t really wrong. Conservation of the planet’s resources is a reasonable idea for the long-term prosperity of humanity. Fuck morality. I’m talking all my favorite drugs and toys, good health and a comfortable place to sit among friends on pennies a day for me and my grandchildren, etc. > [@](#): > > Also, Lurking Guest is just plain nutty. Like John the Baptist? ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/24 "2010-02-06T22:21:40Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Loved his dog, too. Heil! ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/25 "2010-02-06T22:47:59Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I don’t see how **adhay** ’s ideas count as nihilism. Nor do I. Capitalism has coalesced wealth into a few greedy hands. If you can’t see it, you’re blind. Unrestrained corporate greed, in our present geologic blink of an eye, will undo 4+g years of evolution toward minds with compassionate hands. That’s nihilism. … > [@](#): > > **lurking guest** ’s idea seem to qualify though; “I propose not replacing government with anything at all…except folks who have something more than their own personal gain at heart.” Cogent. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/26 "2010-02-07T00:03:17Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Fuck morality. I’m talking all my favorite drugs and toys, good health and a comfortable place to sit among friends on pennies a day for me and my grandchildren, etc. Drop the moral language then dude. You should be able to lay out some facts in a straightforward fashion. Give us some numbers and figures and comparison examples. It will convince more people. If you keep saying crazy shit like “Once greed is dethroned as virtue” will you please stop arguing for things I like? ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/27 "2010-02-07T00:10:04Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Capitalism has coalesced wealth into a few greedy hands. Compared to when? > [@](#): > > Unrestrained corporate greed, in our present geologic blink of an eye, will undo 4+g years of evolution toward minds with compassionate hands. How is a fundamental human characteristic (greed) applied to an entity made up of humans (corporations) going to undo another human trait (compassion)? Further, _what the fuck does it have to do with anything_? ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/28 "2010-02-07T00:48:28Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > Drop the moral language then dude. You should be able to lay out some facts in a straightforward fashion. Give us some numbers and figures and comparison examples. It will convince more people. See above. > [@](#): > > If you keep saying crazy shit like “Once greed is dethroned as virtue” will you please stop arguing for things I like? I totally love GREED devoted to public as opposed to private interest. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/29 "2010-02-07T01:25:05Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > See above. What am I supposed to be looking at? ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/30 "2010-02-07T01:35:47Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > What am I supposed to be looking at? Whatever it is, it’s not beyond the end of your nose. The next 7 generations would be a start. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/31 "2010-02-07T02:20:58Z")
I retract everything I’ve said in this thread and will now use this moment to point and laugh. Haw haw! ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/32 "2010-02-07T03:46:24Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > …Guys, do you really have no idea how _shopworn_ your ideas sound? We’ve heard it all before; your rhetoric could be taken almost unchanged from the ranting of 1960’s radicals, except for the exact slogans (Power to the People! Fight the Power! Up Against the Wall!). … [This one](http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_coined_the_phrase_you%27re_either_part_of_the_solution_or_you%27re_part_of_the_problem) seems relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/33 "2010-02-07T04:15:31Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > [This one](http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_coined_the_phrase_you%27re_either_part_of_the_solution_or_you%27re_part_of_the_problem) seems relevant. Weird how Reagan lifted that, and applied it self-referentially during [his own innaugural](http://www.entertonement.com/clips/jrnppndgms--Government-is-the-problemRonald-Reagan-First-Inaugural-Address-), isn’t it? The right is _still_ trotting the phrase out as if the old boy coined it. Of course, Eldridge Cleaver sounds like some dire weapon that [Nyarlathotep](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyarlathotep) might carry upon his person, but that’s not only no excuse, it’s neither here nor there. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/34 "2010-02-07T06:34:28Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Whatever it is, it’s not beyond the end of your nose. The next 7 generations would be a start. I…don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s not beyond the end of my nose? Is it _in_ my nose? Is whatever you’re talking about the reason I need a neti pot? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/35 "2010-02-07T09:31:47Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > By buying up all the oil and storing it under ground? Get serious. Oh, I don’t know… sounds like a nice make-work scheme. 😛 Now, I’m a pretty lefty kinda guy and I believe there is a place for some government make-work projects. With unemployment so high, a crappy economy, and a crumbling national infrastructure, I can see where we could benefit from connecting the dots. But pulling a bunch of oil from the ground just to put it back down there someplace else seems like the classic _Bill’s job is to dig a hole / Joe’s job is to fill it back in–rinse 'n repeat_ thing. I think it would go a little like this: **COLONEL:** Okey-dokey! Welcome to the United States Make-work Enterprise–Underground Petroleum Corps (better known as the ‘USe ME UP Corps) orientation. Your work assignments are simple: Battalion A-- drill deep and get all the oil up from the deposits that you can. Battalion B-- transport this oil to the stockpile staging area. Battalion C-- dig deep and install the oil stockpile storage tanks. Battalion D-- pump the oil from the tankers in the staging area down into the storage tanks. **RECRUIT #1:** What do we do then, sir? **COLONEL:** Right! Even simpler! At that point, you all will be retrained for your new jobs and then be transported to your new work locations. Your new job assignments will then be as follows: Battalion A-- pump the oil up from the stockpile storage tanks. Battalion C-- transport this oil to the Petroleum / Empty Oil-field Reintroduction Integration Area-- a.k.a., PEORIA. Are any of y’all from Peoria? \*\*RECRUIT #2: \*\* I am, sir, but with all due respect-- I’m not sure this whole scheme is going to play very well in Peoria, sir. \*\*COLONEL: \*\* You just shut yer yap! What do you know anyway, corn-fed?! Now as I was sayin’-- Battalion D will be charged with installing new pipelines into the old oil-field drill shafts. And then Battalion B, you are going to be pumping all the oil back down into the Now-empty, Underground Completely ULtimate Oil Reservoirs—we call ‘em NUCULORs—where it can be rediscovered by government geologists, and then we can build new drilling rigs and get it all out again. \*\*RECRUIT #3: \*\* Question, sir. Um… I guess the first part makes sense… I guess… but I, uh… I thought the whole idea was to stockpile oil reserves underground. For when we run out of places to drill for more. Why are we going to just put it all back where it came from, sir? \*\*COLONEL: \*\* You _thought…?!!??_ Son, that was yer first mistake! You think at all, yer thinking too much! But seein’ as how most all of you are prolly making that same mistake, I’ll explain you all. First of all—the whole idea is to have a bunch of oil and have it underground. Doesn’t matter if it’s in a tank or at the bottom of some undersea drill-shaft, does it, recruit? \*\*RECRUIT #3: \*\*I suppose not, sir. **COLONEL: \*\* That’s right. And for number two, if we do this right, it’ll mean we always have new oil bein’ discovered that we can drill up and then stockpile. And thirdly of all, it means all you slugs now have jobs, and therefore, big weekly checks you can spend on beer, shiny new TVs, and SUV’s. All of which keep up demand for the very thing that you all will be drilling, transporting, stockpiling, and then re-transporting and hiding away again so it can be re-drilled and re-stockpiled. Got it? \*\* ALL RECRUITS (in unison):** Yes SIR! Brilliant sir! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/36 "2010-02-07T21:16:30Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > I…don’t know what you’re talking about. > > It’s not beyond the end of my nose? Is it _in_ my nose? Is whatever you’re talking about the reason I need a neti pot? I don’t think he’s ever seen your rug. You know, the one that tied the room together. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Krebbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5fc32e/32.png) [@Mr.Krebbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Krebbs)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/37 "2010-02-08T17:16:11Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Fair enough, but what’s the alternative? A centrally directed command economy? Sumptuary laws? If you think that the _hoi polloi_ are blind and ignorant, they’re positively geniuses compared to your average bureaucracy. The track record of would-be philosopher kings telling the peasants what’s good for them is dismal. While mine is a radical opinion, it seems the only viable solution is reverting to small communities sustained solely by their respective habitats. If not evil, humanity (except for its dwindling traditional communities) is irresponsible. You bring intelligence up, so the fact is our race is just not smart enough to wield so much control over the planet and even to a certain extent, itself. As for the rich, one cannot deny that they are the ruling class in **any** society and that the present power of the ruling class is a product of the mass delusion that money is actually worth something in the real world. But I imagine you were looking for strokes less broad than those. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/38 "2010-02-08T17:32:32Z")
The system is not so much evil as it is indifferent - _actively_ indifferent to us as individuals. Because so much of it is based on creating [surplus value](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_value), each of us has to give more than we get back. Sometimes _a lot_ more. “The ruling class,” btw, are no longer leisured fatheads lighting cigars with $20 bills. They are competitive, numbers-driven, and in everything, they are a little bit hard. You work to make those numbers and help them compete, because if you don’t, you’re gone. As a result, everyone has to be hard, and so does life. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/39 "2010-02-08T17:40:45Z")
The ruling class is always rich because that’s what it means to be the ruling class. Duh. As for the delusion that money is worth something, well, money is just a special kind of good that facilitates the exchange of other goods and services. It’s worth something because it fulfils an important economic function. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/40 "2010-02-08T17:56:53Z")
But the RC is not _just_ rich. They have, in our era, adopted what basically were good ideals - hard work, competition, productivity - and bent them to the purpose of a numbers game. You do nothing for its own sake - at least not unless you can grow the numbers, and only as long as it doesn’t interfere with the numbers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878.md?page=3)