# I pit the naive "the system is EVIL!" nihlists who post here **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 6, 2010, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878 "2010-02-06T02:20:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/61 "2010-02-08T23:53:09Z")
> [@Mr.Krebbs](#): > > I’m not positing the death of millions as a solution in itself; returning to a sustainable way of living is the solution. But if the Earth cannot sustain our current population, it only makes sense to attempt to change sooner instead of later. Granted, the resultant privation will already be extreme at this point, but the possibilities only get worse the longer we continue to abuse our resources. How would we do this sooner rather than later? You’re talking about the death of Billions. Would we set up death panels to determine the fortunate few who survive? Would the undesirable be killed in mass gas chambers? The actions you would have to take will make Hitler Mao and Stalin look like a trio of misbehaving teens. Also, Even if we accept that the earth is overpopulated, I don’t see why the alternative is a tiny population of a few self-sustaining Hamlets. Why not let the population shrink naturally, with people in poor countires having fewer children, as they will do if they cannot support them. I think urbanized civilization is a boon and little short of a miracle. I’m not prepared to give it up, particularly since giving it up and reurning to a world of a few milion people is precisely the disaster we’re trying to avoid. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/62 "2010-02-08T23:59:10Z")
> [@Mr.Krebbs](#): > > I’m not positing the death of millions as a solution in itself; returning to a sustainable way of living is the solution. But if the Earth cannot sustain our current population, it only makes sense to attempt to change sooner instead of later. Granted, the resultant privation will already be extreme at this point, but the possibilities only get worse the longer we continue to abuse our resources. You first. The rest of us will continue to run our coal-fired electric plants, to operate our machine-tools, to turn out machine guns to shoot anyone who tries to make us stop. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/63 "2010-02-09T00:37:51Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > I honestly don’t know. But let’s say that it can’t. Well, then people will die and the population will shrink. But it seems strange to posit as a solution the very thing you want to avoid: the mass death of billions of people. If catastrophe happens then it happens, but we should try to avoid it. I suggest a side-step and two step beyond speulation. We got what we got and there ain’t nutten more. Call me … Poet? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/64 "2010-02-09T00:45:00Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Emphasis mine. > > Most typos are just annoying. Some rise to the level of genius. > > I, for one, welcome our new photosynthesizing overlords, and would point out that as a poster to a well-known internet bulletin board, I can be very useful in rounding up slaves to work in their underground fertilizer mines. Now I want to change my Username to **The Kelptocrat** , or **Kelptocratic Overlord**. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/65 "2010-02-09T00:49:21Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > When dealing with ill conceived lunacy, the snide answer is usually the correct one. But I am glad to see that you realize your proposal would entail the death of 99% of humanity. Most armchair utopians aren’t that astute. Given the exponential nature of GROWTH …it behooves humanity to adhere to Escher(?). ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/66 "2010-02-09T01:25:34Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Also, Even if we accept that the earth is overpopulated, I don’t see why the alternative is a tiny population of a few self-sustaining Hamlets. Why not let the population shrink naturally, with people in poor countires having fewer children, as they will do if they cannot support them. I think urbanized civilization is a boon and little short of a miracle. I’m not prepared to give it up, particularly since giving it up and reurning to a world of a few milion people is precisely the disaster we’re trying to avoid. I agree. In fact, I’d argue it’s the people in the suburbs who are fucking things up the most - almost none of my city-dwelling friends (or myself) drive cars, and it seems like the people having the most kids in this country live outside of urban areas. Plus, all those strip malls are fucking ugly, both aesthetically and spiritually. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Krebbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5fc32e/32.png) [@Mr.Krebbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Krebbs)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/67 "2010-02-09T04:51:27Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > How would we do this sooner rather than later? You’re talking about the death of Billions. Would we set up death panels to determine the fortunate few who survive? Would the undesirable be killed in mass gas chambers? The actions you would have to take will make Hitler Mao and Stalin look like a trio of misbehaving teens. When did “returning to a sustainable way of living” turn into genocide? :rolleyes: It seems the best course now is to discuss our situation realistically, rather than assume that we can sweep reality under the rug and everything will sort itself out. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/68 "2010-02-09T04:57:56Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > I agree. In fact, I’d argue it’s the people in the suburbs who are fucking things up the most - almost none of my city-dwelling friends (or myself) drive cars, and it seems like the people having the most kids in this country live outside of urban areas. Plus, all those strip malls are fucking ugly, both aesthetically and spiritually. Show me one. single. human. being. not in the EXXON/ENRON suburbs. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/69 "2010-02-09T07:36:06Z")
As soon as I figure out what the fuck that means, I’ll try to accommodate you. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/70 "2010-02-09T08:25:36Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > No, it makes you a whiny, pessimistic asshole. Get bent, shitstain. > [@](#): > > The system isn’t evil. It’s just the way that things are. The two are not mutually exclusive, genius. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/71 "2010-02-09T08:43:48Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Get bent, shitstain. After you, darling. > [@](#): > > The two are not mutually exclusive, genius. No, but saying that the way something is, something always was, and something always will be is “evil” is one of those useless statements. It’s part of the human condition. There will always be a system, there will always be people in charge and people not in charge, and the people not in charge will always be screwed over. And what’s more, most of the people being screwed over will be perfectly fine with being screwed over, because that’s the way people are. We have something in us that craves structure and order, even at the expense of liberty. And if you don’t think so, you’re a fool. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/72 "2010-02-09T08:55:54Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > After you, darling. Not with your ladyboy lover’s dick, chum > [@](#): > > No, but saying that the way something is, something always was, and something always will be is “evil” is one of those useless statements. Good thing I didn’t say that, then. > [@](#): > > It’s part of the human condition. A capitalist corporatist anti-environment profiteering plutarchy is inherent in the human condition? Could have fooled me. > [@](#): > > There will always be a system, there will always be people in charge and people not in charge, and the people not in charge will always be screwed over. …but _I’m_ the pessimist:rolleyes: > [@](#): > > And what’s more, most of the people being screwed over will be perfectly fine with being screwed over, because that’s the way people are. I agree - that’s why I said:“People have gotten the system they deserve” > [@](#): > > We have something in us that craves structure and order, even at the expense of liberty. And if you don’t think so, you’re a fool. You must have missed where I said: “people aren’t ready for anything better” I’m not arguing with that point at all. That doesn’t make it **not evil**. _Argumentum ad antiquitatem_ doesn’t counter this. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/73 "2010-02-09T15:14:22Z")
> [@Mr.Krebbs](#): > > When did “returning to a sustainable way of living” turn into genocide? :rolleyes: It seems the best course now is to discuss our situation realistically, rather than assume that we can sweep reality under the rug and everything will sort itself out. Yes, we should discuss our situation realistically. On that, you and I agree. What I’m saying is that converting our 6.8 billion person urban planet into a collection of small self-sufficient villages is not a possible solution. Not without a lot of bloody social engineering that would barely be plausible in a science-fiction novel. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/74 "2010-02-09T17:10:20Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > Just sayin’. Don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/75 "2010-02-09T17:32:24Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Yes, we should discuss our situation realistically. On that, you and I agree. What I’m saying is that converting our 6.8 billion person urban planet… Maybe if we went back to the gold standard and adopted a flat-tax for everyone except those who couldn’t produce a genuine birth certificate? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/76 "2010-02-09T18:00:56Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > What I believe is Good, Morale, and absolutely Correct. > > People who don’t believe what I believe are Evil, Immoral, Stupid, Corrupt and WRONG WRONG WRONG. They should all either be killed or be forced to believe what I believe. > > Even when I don’t have the slightest clue what the fuck I’m talking about. You’ll fit in _real_ well in the American political debate. Have you thought of running for office? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/77 "2010-02-09T19:19:17Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > I agree. In fact, I’d argue it’s the people in the suburbs who are fucking things up the most - almost none of my city-dwelling friends (or myself) drive cars, and it seems like the people having the most kids in this country live outside of urban areas. Plus, all those strip malls are fucking ugly, both aesthetically and spiritually. Actually, the suburbs were a fantastic solution to the problems facing densely packed cities in the event of a nuclear war. The populations of our metropolitan areas are now too spread out to guarantee total annihilation by a nuclear strike, and/or it would require far too many weapons to accomplish. In an era of cheap transportation, distance means little. We see the downside of this only when prices increase, such as our local paper and news running all sorts of stories about the hardships of those living 50+ miles from their place of work when the price of gas approached $4 per gallon. Interestingly, this tends to resolve itself, as there was a boom in inner city housing construction at about the same time, and many of the the people driving that far either decide to move closer, or look for closer jobs. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/78 "2010-02-09T20:57:42Z")
Distance may mean little, but as far as environmental impact, not having a car at all would seem to be more beneficial than driving everywhere. I take public transportation to work, but otherwise I can walk out my door and within a few blocks get groceries, go to a movie, go to a bookstore, get coffee or eat at enough restaurants that I could dine out every night for months without going to the same place twice, same thing for bars, etc. etc. It just seems like a better model to me. Also, as I said, the people having multiple children do tend to congregate in the suburbs. As well, I tend to notice composting programs/buying organic/buying locally grown food seem to be much more important to urbanites, but it’s entirely possible that’s just the case in my particular area. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/79 "2010-02-10T01:22:12Z")
The system isn’t evil; it’s amoral. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878/80 "2010-02-10T01:40:46Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > The system isn’t evil; it’s amoral. We define the system how we want. I don’t think the system is evil but the way it is going it does not benefit as many people as I think it should. I am not pleased when we allow the government to benefit the few ,while many suffer. Others identify ,often wrongly, with the wealthy ,ruling class. I wonder how they can. But they do ,to their own detriment. I am an antiwar pacifist. i have very little respect for the wars we enter ,again and again. In that regard, the system is evil and wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-naive-the-system-is-evil-nihlists-who-post-here/527878.md?page=5)