# I pit the parents who let this happen \[6-year old shot in head and killed\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 10, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330 "2013-04-10T15:58:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/21 "2013-04-11T15:46:35Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > And a two-year-old [shooting his mom in the gut](http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20130409/NEWS03/130409020/2-year-old-accidentally-shots-mother-abdomen-Tenn-) as she slept. The article has her claiming that her SO typically locks up his gun each day rather than leaving it under the pillow for the toddler to find and shoot mommy with; not sure if she’s truthful and just very unlucky or what: I read a report somewhere that even when children are trained on guns and told not to ever, ever pick up a gun, if they see an unsecured gun they will still pick it up. It only takes a moment’s lapse, especially with a dodgy two year old that runs everywhere. I can believe he always locks it up and then just forgot one day. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/22 "2013-04-11T15:57:22Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > It was like finding gold for a pubescent teen. No internet back then.) [Porn Tangent]Tell me about it. When I was about 13 or so, some friends and I discovered, in a neighbor’s trash, a whole garbage bag full of porn magazines - lots of niche stuff. It was glorious. Somehow there must have been a ray of light shining down from the heavens to direct us to it. We took it and hid it in the woods. It was our little treasure for a few days, but then someone else found it and took the precious from us.[/Porn Tangent] ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/23 "2013-04-11T16:20:31Z")
Man, this has been a tricky one, personally. “Four-year-old shoots six-year-old” – Wow, poor kid. What kind of dumbass leaves a gun where a four-year-old can get to it? “…in Toms River, NJ” – Oh crap, that’s the town next to mine. Well, we certainly have our fair share of dumbasses. “…the father, Timothy Holt…” – Fuck. Fuck fukkity fuck fuck fuck. In the words of a lot of web memes, shit just got _real_. I’ve met Brandon, and I went to high school with Tim. Present evidence to the contrary, not someone I’d call a dumbass. I can’t imagine how he must be feeling right now… ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/24 "2013-04-11T16:22:42Z")
What’s scary is you know these people considered themselves ‘safe and responsible’ gun owners. I’m having a bit of a fight around this thinking in my own home right now. Right now, my daughter and I live with my parents. Recently, my brother moved in with his family as well. Brother’s a big gun nut and kind of brought out the gun nut in my dad. There’s probably three handguns and four rifles in the house right now. None of them locked up. Until recently, they were all loaded. It took a LOT of pressure from my mom and myself to make them unload the things. My dad and brother are both confident the kids (9, 5 and 3) can’t reach the guns. But the 9 year old knows exactly where they are and, having gone shooting with his dad before, feels confident with them. The other day he came in after watching a zombie movie and assured me we’d be safe if zombie attacked because we have ‘home defense’ in the closet. I asked him if he remembered that he’s never supposed to touch the guns and he just rolled his eyes at me and said “I’ve shot a gun before” and walked off. I should add, said boy has Asperger’s and anger issues. After that comment, my mom and I’s new battle is to make my dad and brother buy a freaking gun safe. This is what’s wrong with the whole gun issue. The families in this story and I’d say a large majority of gun owners FEEL they’re safe and responsible. But when we see story after story about this shit happening, it’s clear they’re not. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/25 "2013-04-11T16:26:21Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Present evidence to the contrary, not someone I’d call a dumbass. So, what you’re saying is… this was a one-off? I.e. - doesn’t prove anything? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/26 "2013-04-11T16:34:05Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > So, what you’re saying is… this was a one-off? > > I.e. - doesn’t prove anything? We ALL have moments of carelessness. Forget to put the seat down. Forget to put the leftovers in the fridge. I once left an entire $40 box of frozen chicken on top of the deep freeze (waste of money AND a stinky mess!) The thing is, people will make mistakes. It’s inevitable. If you accidentally leave your knife out and not safely stored, a little child may cut themselves. The difference with guns is, they are deadly. In fact, they are specifically _designed_ to kill people or animals easily. If you make a mistake with a gun, the outcome is much, much more likely to be fatal than if you make a mistake with pretty much any other household object. I can absolutely believe that the person in this story was not dumb, not an idiot, and was (99.99% of the time) a careful gun owner. He was human. He made a mistake. Unfortunately, when guns are involved, mistakes can often lead to fatal results. More guns = more mistakes by otherwise careful people. It’s a simple calculation. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/27 "2013-04-11T16:36:47Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > … After that comment, my mom and I’s new battle is to make my dad and brother buy a freaking gun safe. if the claim is made that a safe would be too costly or there is no room for it then at least get trigger locks on all the guns. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/28 "2013-04-11T16:37:00Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > So, what you’re saying is… this was a one-off? > > I.e. - doesn’t prove anything? I’m pretty sure that it proves an otherwise decent “non-dumbass” gun owner may still have unsecured weapons that would give a pre-schooler the ability to kill anyone who happens to be near him. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/29 "2013-04-11T16:45:00Z")
Euphonious Polemic & Cheesesteak - agreed. I also think that the issue is a gun, not people. It’s much easier and more pragmatic to control guns than people. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/30 "2013-04-11T17:02:53Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yep. My father had a .32 that hey kept loaded and hidden. I never went actively looking for it, but I did eventually find it (in a false/dropped ceiling.) To be fair, he did eventually find my porn stash, too, that I thought he’d never find. (Well, not much of a stash. I think it was just one magazine that I randomly found in a convenience store dumpster. It was like finding gold for a pubescent teen. No internet back then.) Or I assume he did, as it just disappeared one day. Believe me he did you a favor - you do NOT want the kind of talking to you get when your mom finds it. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/31 "2013-04-11T17:15:59Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > My dad and brother are both confident the kids (9, 5 and 3) can’t reach the guns. A 9 year old can get to anything in the house that isn’t locked up - and even if it is, chances are good he can find the key, the combination, or whatever. At age 9, I probably knew our house better than my parents did. I can still keep stuff out of my 5 year old’s knowledge by keeping it on high shelves inside closets. I don’t see that still working this time next year, though. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/32 "2013-04-11T17:35:33Z")
And in other news, a four year old McCormick Drive resident received an NRA Junior Patriot award for successfully defending his home against a trespasser. ---
**Author:** ![smaje1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@smaje1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smaje1)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/33 "2013-04-11T17:45:46Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > The other day he came in after watching a zombie movie and assured me we’d be safe if zombie attacked because we have ‘home defense’ in the closet. I asked him if he remembered that he’s never supposed to touch the guns and he just rolled his eyes at me and said “I’ve shot a gun before” and walked off. I should add, said boy has Asperger’s and anger issues. That’s a sucky situation to be in AngelSoft. I hope you’re able to do something about it. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/34 "2013-04-11T18:21:10Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > The other day he came in after watching a zombie movie and assured me we’d be safe if zombie attacked because we have ‘home defense’ in the closet. I asked him if he remembered that he’s never supposed to touch the guns and he just rolled his eyes at me and said “I’ve shot a gun before” and walked off. I should add, said boy has Asperger’s and anger issues. After that comment, my mom and I’s new battle is to make my dad and brother buy a freaking gun safe. “Come on, I’ll show you where my dad keeps his gun.” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/HUbiwYHLHSM/maxresdefault.jpg "The Sixth Sense - Come On") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUbiwYHLHSM) I see danger signs all over your post. It does not sound like this young man has been taught proper gun safety, respect, and attitude. His mental issues may impair his understanding of what is safe, and precautions should be in place. As in, he should never be able to access a weapon without supervision. Please continue to work with your family, in a constructive way on this issue. I work with young people, some of them with various issues along the spectrum, and I am continually frustrated with the attitude that due to HIPPA and sensitivity that these issues cannot be discussed. It is the literal unseen \*elephant in the room \*. Both the Colorado theater shooter and the Sandy Hook shooter had significant issues, that are barely reported upon or discussed. ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/35 "2013-04-11T19:33:00Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > “Come on, I’ll show you where my dad keeps his gun.” > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUbiwYHLHSM](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUbiwYHLHSM) > > I see danger signs all over your post. It does not sound like this young man has been taught proper gun safety, respect, and attitude. His mental issues may impair his understanding of what is safe, and precautions should be in place. As in, he should never be able to access a weapon without supervision. Please continue to work with your family, in a constructive way on this issue. > > I work with young people, some of them with various issues along the spectrum, and I am continually frustrated with the attitude that due to HIPPA and sensitivity that these issues cannot be discussed. It is the literal unseen \*elephant in the room \*. Both the Colorado theater shooter and the Sandy Hook shooter had significant issues, that are barely reported upon or discussed. Trust me, my mother and I (more so myself) are seeing the same signs. The big problem is, she’s more trusting that my dad knows how to be safe with the guns and I know he won’t listen if I say something. It’s frustrating because my dad was in the military for 25 years. He should know how to safely keep a gun in the house, even if I’d love for them to be gone completely. My brother’s a card carrying NRA member who’s confident he’s a ‘safe and responsible’ gun owner. Even though I’ve seen him walking around the house with a loaded pistol in the back of his pants. Basically, I have no voice in this. I’m the ‘black sheep liberal’ of the family and nothing I say gets taken seriously. I never even told my brother what his son said because I knew he’d think I was over reacting and say that his son knew not to touch a gun when he wasn’t around because he’d ‘tan his hide’. I don’t see my brother or father investing money in a gun safe or trigger locks. At this point my only recourse is to find a place of my own. Which, without a job, isn’t going to happen any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/36 "2013-04-11T20:02:04Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > I see danger signs all over your post. It does not sound like this young man has been taught proper gun safety, respect, and attitude. His mental issues may impair his understanding of what is safe, and precautions should be in place. As in, he should never be able to access a weapon without supervision. Please continue to work with your family, in a constructive way on this issue. How does one guarantee that a kid at risk will only get access to a gun with supervision? We’ve already seen examples of well trained gun owners making mistakes. It just takes one slip - even for family’s who do better than her’s. > [@](#): > > I work with young people, some of them with various issues along the spectrum, and I am continually frustrated with the attitude that due to HIPPA and sensitivity that these issues cannot be discussed. It is the literal unseen \*elephant in the room \*. Both the Colorado theater shooter and the Sandy Hook shooter had significant issues, that are barely reported upon or discussed. I was under the impression that the Sandy Hook shooter’s mother was well aware of his issues. He certainly had a significant amount of gun training and was old enough to be responsible - assume a better mental condition. But how do you keep a parent from being in denial about her child’s condition? Do we lock up people with the potential for violence? Even screening for mental illness wouldn’t have worked in this case, since I don’t think he ever bought a gun. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/37 "2013-04-15T17:50:51Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Even screening for mental illness wouldn’t have worked in this case, since I don’t think he ever bought a gun. The Sandy Hook shooter apparently did look at buying a gun, but apparently decided not to because there was a waiting period involved. Why wait when you can just steal Mom’s? However, as far as I know he’d have passed the required background check easily, as he’d never been court-ordered to undergo involuntary treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/38 "2013-04-15T19:28:35Z")
If only that other 6 year old also had a gun, this tragedy could have been averted! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/39 "2013-04-16T15:45:43Z")
> [@PoorYorick](#): > > > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > > > He could have just as easily killed the other child with a baseball bat, a bicycle, a swimming pool or an alcohol. > > I’d love to see the stats of how many 4-year-olds beat to death a 6-year-old with a bat each year. > > (Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that I’ve been wooshed?) IIRC, Hentor is a rational thinker; thus you’ve been whooshed. Nevertheless the gibberish produced by some SDMB gun enthusiasts (e.g. the mass killings at schools would happen without guns, using knives instead :dubious: ) that I’d think Hentor’s was serious if his name were unfamiliar. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330/40 "2013-04-16T17:20:38Z")
Indeed that ended up being a whoosh. It’s a joke about idiots who want to argue away any risk associated with firearms by pointing to the fact that there is risk associated with other things. " ‘An’ alcohol?" That should have given it away right there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-parents-who-let-this-happen-6-year-old-shot-in-head-and-killed/655330.md?page=3)