# I pit the people behind anti-transgender "bathroom bills" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 22, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831 "2016-02-22T20:24:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/221 "2016-04-04T22:27:09Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > And I’ve said over and over that I already know that - and the POINT is that if one can’t tell which gender someone is - because one can’t read a person’s mind - then what’s the point of, or the possibility of, segregating restrooms by gender any more? Because it’s what people prefer, and it causes no harm. Because almost everyone will abide by it, which means the possibility is almost a certainty. Why isn’t this a satisfactory answer? > [@](#): > > WHY though? Does it weird you out to be around women? Does it weird you out that they might be weirded out? Do you just do it because that’s the way you’ve always done it? Because I’ve always done it that way, and because it’s expected, and because I’m comfortable with it, and because I have no reason not to. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/222 "2016-04-04T22:29:26Z")
On poly marriage, I’m open to it, but I’d have to hear from multiple poly practicers. I needed to hear from gay people to understand and accept gay marriage, and I’d need to hear from poly folks to understand and evaluate and possibly accept poly marriage. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/223 "2016-04-04T22:29:41Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I don’t think it’s a problem yet. But the solution, which is inevitable anyway, is getting rid of gendered bathrooms, and replacing them with more private, single-use ones. {…} And until we remodel every public bathroom in the US what shall we do? 'Cause. ya know, people can only “hold it” for so long. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/224 "2016-04-04T22:31:31Z")
It doesn’t matter if everyone wore a full body covering and no one knew anyone’s appearance; the vast majority would still use gendered bathrooms. That’s why it’s possible and even almost certain. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/225 "2016-04-04T22:55:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Says you, but I’m not convinced. > [@](#): > > there are many same-sex couples raising kids and they deserve the same protections that the kids of other couples have; There are many poly groups raising kids and they deserve the same same protections that the kids of other couples have. > [@](#): > > giving these rights to same-sex couples causes no harm; Giving these rights to poly groups causes no harm. > [@](#): > > and same-sex couples with or without children are harmed by barring them these rights. And poly groups with or without children are harmed by barring them these rights. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/226 "2016-04-04T22:57:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It doesn’t matter if everyone wore a full body covering and no one knew anyone’s appearance; the vast majority would still use gendered bathrooms. That’s why it’s possible and even almost certain. That doesn’t mean there would be any reason to. They’d be doing only because they always have. It will have reached the point of completely pointlessness. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/227 "2016-04-04T22:59:37Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > And until we remodel every public bathroom in the US what shall we do? 'Cause. ya know, people can only “hold it” for so long. > > CMC fnord! I don’t know - you tell me. Should we just leave things as they are for now? Okay. Should we let everyone use whatever bathroom they want? Then you’d be solving the problem without remodeling. Cool. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/228 "2016-04-04T23:00:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You say of course, but that’s your opinion. Consider challenging your own assumptions. I might really disagree, and if so, it might be the root of our disagreement. > > Appropriate refers to the context of the convention. It’s not my opinion. You AGREE with it. It’s merely an observation of the fact that most people prefer to use a bathroom corresponding with their own gender. It’s why we are having this discussion. I think you were confused about what I was saying. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/229 "2016-04-04T23:01:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Because I’ve always done it that way, and because it’s expected, and because I’m comfortable with it, and because I have no reason not to. And yet if someone said the same thing about using a restroom only with someone of the same sex, regardless of gender identity, you’d reject it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/230 "2016-04-04T23:11:21Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > There are many poly groups raising kids and they deserve the same same protections that the kids of other couples have. > > Giving these rights to poly groups causes no harm. > > And poly groups with or without children are harmed by barring them these rights. Again, according to you. I don’t know if this is true. I’m open to hearing any complaints or reports from people in poly marriages. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/231 "2016-04-04T23:12:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Again, according to you. I don’t know if this is true. I’m open to hearing any complaints or reports from people in poly marriages. You do realize you’re helping to drown out all other conversations in this thread, right? You do realize you could start a separate thread to debate all this bullshit, right? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/232 "2016-04-04T23:13:23Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > That doesn’t mean there would be any reason to. They’d be doing only because they always have. It will have reached the point of completely pointlessness. Pointless to you, but so what? Others might be fine with it and prefer it. Why is this such a problem? > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > It’s not my opinion. You AGREE with it. It’s merely an observation of the fact that most people prefer to use a bathroom corresponding with their own gender. It’s why we are having this discussion. I think you were confused about what I was saying. If you’re not going to believe me when I tell you what I agree or disagree with, then that’s a shame. I’m honestly stating my beliefs. > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > And yet if someone said the same thing about using a restroom only with someone of the same sex, regardless of gender identity, you’d reject it. Right – because there would be a huge reason not to – the great harm it would cause. There’s a difference. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/233 "2016-04-04T23:14:23Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > You do realize you’re helping to drown out all other conversations in this thread, right? You do realize you could start a separate thread to debate all this bullshit, right? Ehh, it’s the Pit. I’m not that worried about such things in the Pit. It’s a tangential discussion, but it’s related, and it’s in the Pit, so I’m not terribly concerned (without moderator instruction, at least). Plus, I’m getting closer and closer. You’ll see. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/234 "2016-04-04T23:24:23Z")
Okay, I give up, at least in this thread, formally. **lance** , I’d be happy to continue this by PM or in another thread if you want, but I won’t continue it in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/235 "2016-04-05T00:07:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Again, according to you. I don’t know if this is true. I’m open to hearing any complaints or reports from people in poly marriages. Oh, come on. You can’t possibly just dismiss those. You can’t sit here and say you can’t conceive of a poly marriage with children that suffers from lack of legal legitimacy. But hey, if you did hear from them, would you agree that they have as much a right to marry for those reasons as straight and gay couples? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/236 "2016-04-05T00:07:56Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > That argument also leads to recognizing polyamorous marriage. > That argument also leads to recognizing polyamorous marriage. > That argument also leads to recognizing polyamorous marriage. And if it does…so what? Is that an inherently bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/237 "2016-04-05T00:08:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Okay, I give up, at least in this thread, formally. **lance** , I’d be happy to continue this by PM or in another thread if you want, but I won’t continue it in this thread. Damn, and you were so close! 😃 It’s too bad you’re leaving just as you’re in the position of arguing against the right of marriage and in favor of following mindless social norms on gender and bathrooms for no good reason. Not the place you expected to be, I’d guess. But seriously, thanks for not being an insulting troll like some others. I appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/238 "2016-04-05T00:10:38Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > And if it does…so what? > > Is that an inherently bad thing? Not at all. I support poly marriage. I want to know how someone can go around saying “marriage is a right and anyone who loves each other should be able to get married” etc. and let gays in the door and then turn around and slam it shut for poly groups who want to marry. And they’ve arguably been waiting even longer (Mormons and Muslims). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/239 "2016-04-05T00:16:34Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Not at all. I support poly marriage. > > I want to know how someone can go around saying “marriage is a right and anyone who loves each other should be able to get married” etc. and let gays in the door and then turn around and slam it shut for poly groups who want to marry. And they’ve arguably been waiting even longer (Mormons and Muslims). Looky here, a thread for you! If that doesn’t work, start a new thread. But this isn’t the thread about declawing cats, nor is it the thread about how you think you should be able to pick your nose in public, nor is it the thread about whether people should wear white after Labor day, nor is it the thread about whether Black Lives Matter, nor is it the thread about whether all bathrooms should be unisex, nor is it the thread about all your unanswered questions about poly marriage. It’s a thread about the people who write anti-transgender bathroom bills, and how to respond effectively to them. If you have nothing to say on the subject, say nothing. More importantly, **Broomstick** , don’t feed him. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831/240 "2016-04-05T11:36:55Z")
The discussion with **lance** about gendered bathrooms and poly marriage can be continued [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=789410). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-people-behind-anti-transgender-bathroom-bills/746831.md?page=13)