# I pit the phrase "African American" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 31, 2010, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095 "2010-01-31T07:43:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Chicagojeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@Chicagojeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicagojeff)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/121 "2010-02-06T04:57:06Z")
i just wanna hear Lou Reed sing… "and the african-americans girls go… do dodododododod I got Jesse J’s point when he went for this what… 20yrs ago… and its been helpful i think in forging a better feeling about and interest of the continent of Africa and the West African countries in specific… The crux people is being able to define oneself… reminds me of a paper i wrote when i came across a popular early 20th century song. “Everybody has an anthem but the coon” african american is an attempt to tie into a diaspora… why the panties get in a bunch i have no idea… ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/122 "2010-02-06T05:06:26Z")
What’s wrong with just “American?” Or just “U.S. citizen?” Nothing. Which is why AA is BS. ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/123 "2010-02-06T05:12:48Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Whatever, Fokker! > 🙂 > > I believe Poon is a Native-American name…likely Comanche Indian… Dr. Rosen-Rosen? ---
**Author:** ![BMada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@BMada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMada)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/124 "2010-02-06T06:45:26Z")
One funny thing i remember hearing was from a sports broadcast that labelled the F1 race car driver Lewis Hamilton as the first “african-american” to win a race. He’s fucking british. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/125 "2010-02-06T17:31:13Z")
White people are _still_ whining about “African-American”? If I didn’t know any better, I’d think the year was 1994. ---
**Author:** ![Chicagojeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@Chicagojeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicagojeff)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/126 "2010-02-06T17:42:13Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > What’s wrong with just “American?” Or just “U.S. citizen?” > > Nothing. > > Which is why AA is BS. i concur.. call me when the St Patty’s day is discontinued along with Columbus day.. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/127 "2010-02-07T02:19:49Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > What’s wrong with just “American?” Or just “U.S. citizen?” > > Nothing. > > Which is why AA is BS. Aside from the utter lack of relevance or connection between your premise and your conclusion, I will consider your opinion worth consideration when you can provide citations to your previous condemnations of Irish-American, German-American, Italian-American, Polish-American, Anglo-American, Chinese-American, etc. Any reason why you pick only one ethnic group to be scorned for doing what all other immigrant groups have done? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/128 "2010-02-07T03:54:19Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > Dr. Rosen-Rosen? Now you’re just using the whole fist, doc. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/129 "2010-02-07T05:31:08Z")
> [@Chicagojeff](#): > > i concur.. call me when the St Patty’s day is discontinued along with Columbus day.. Um… what’s wrong with Columbus Day? > [@tomndebb](#): > > Aside from the utter lack of relevance or connection between your premise and your conclusion, I will consider your opinion worth consideration when you can provide citations to your previous condemnations of Irish-American, German-American, Italian-American, Polish-American, Anglo-American, Chinese-American, etc. > > Any reason why you pick only one ethnic group to be scorned for doing what all other immigrant groups have done? There isn’t an existing thread about them? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/130 "2010-02-07T05:40:35Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Aside from the utter lack of relevance or connection between your premise and your conclusion, I will consider your opinion worth consideration when you can provide citations to your previous condemnations of Irish-American, German-American, Italian-American, Polish-American, Anglo-American, Chinese-American, etc. > > Any reason why you pick only one ethnic group to be scorned for doing what all other immigrant groups have done? Have those other groups done it themselves, or were those labels applied by others? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/131 "2010-02-07T05:44:56Z")
I’m not sure that the appellation _African-American_ was coined by a black person. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/132 "2010-02-07T05:52:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Um… what’s wrong with Columbus Day? Some people whose ancestors were here long before Columbus aren’t too happy with him being credited with “discovering” an already inhabited part of the world, and are also upset about many of the unpleasant and horrific things that occurred to said ancestors subsequent to the arrival of Columbus and other Europeans. Thus, they do not want to honor Columbus, and do not feel he is worthy of having a holiday named after him. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/133 "2010-02-07T05:55:26Z")
Oh, I see. I don’t think that signifies, though; Jefferson and Washington were slaveowners, and both have rather nice monuments to them in DC maintained at the taxpayers’ expense. Columbus just has a holiday for people who work for the government or have strong unions. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/134 "2010-02-07T06:59:46Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Some people whose ancestors were here long before Columbus aren’t too happy with him being credited with “discovering” an already inhabited part of the world, and are also upset about many of the unpleasant and horrific things that occurred to said ancestors subsequent to the arrival of Columbus and other Europeans. Thus, they do not want to honor Columbus, and do not feel he is worthy of having a holiday named after him. Maybe so, but I don’t think that’s what Chicagojeff had in mind. It’s a holiday associated with Italian-Americans. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/135 "2010-02-07T07:21:19Z")
> [@Omega\_Glory](#): > > That’s the way I’ve always understood it, and it’s possible that Jackson had something different in mind. I’ve done a bit of searching and see bits of speeches where he referred to descendants of slaves, while trying to gain support for the term, but haven’t seen any where he talked about immigrants being along for the ride yet. FWIW, this has always been my understanding of the term. I’m white, but my understanding has always been that African-American is a cultural descriptor, not a racial descriptor, and it has to due with the culture (which, yes, isn’t exactly homogeneous but has certain commonalities) descending from former slaves. Thus, it is a culture with, among other things, a lot of southern US influences. The sons and daughters of recent African immigrants would not be “African-Americans”–at least not from my understanding of the term. I have a friend whose wife is from Sierra Leone, for example. It would never occur to me to refer to her as an “African-American,” (and she refuses to identify as such) although she technically is an American citizen originally from Africa. That said, people can self-identify as whatever they want. It’s just that when the term “African-American” comes to mind, my understanding of it is limited to a general subset of black Americans. Maybe I’m wrong in this. I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/136 "2010-02-07T14:11:53Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Some people whose ancestors were here long before Columbus aren’t too happy with him being credited with “discovering” an already inhabited part of the world, and are also upset about many of the unpleasant and horrific things that occurred to said ancestors subsequent to the arrival of Columbus and other Europeans. Thus, they do not want to honor Columbus, and do not feel he is worthy of having a holiday named after him. > [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Maybe so, but I don’t think that’s what Chicagojeff had in mind. It’s a holiday associated with Italian-Americans. I understand that **Chicagojeff** most likely wasn’t thinking about the Native American viewpoint, and true, it is a holiday associated with Italian-Americans. Those aren’t mutually exclusive viewpoints, though. It is possible to have good intentions, no animosity, and still inadvertently give offense. Likewise, the editors at _Vanity Fair_ may have had no animosity whatsoever, they may be good people and otherwise in their lives be “post racial” or whatever. Nonetheless, they have offended some people. When someone finds he or she has inadvertently given offense, rather than get defensive, it might be a better course to stop and consider the other side’s viewpoint. That doesn’t mean you have to agree with it, of course, but self-examination is usually a good thing. Then again, there _are_ bigoted people in this world - and some of them smile very sweetly - who really don’t care if they give offense. You can’t always tell at first glance, so it’s not a bad idea to thoroughly look at the matter. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/137 "2010-02-07T18:52:19Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Have those other groups done it themselves, or were those labels applied by others? Generally by themselves. Letting outsiders name one’s group tends to result in epithets such as “Drunk Micks,” “Kraut heads,” “Wops,” “Dumb Polacks,” “Chinks,” and “niggers” or “coons.” A bunch of Nativists (irony noted) in the early 20th century made the same sort of diasparaging remarks about “hyphenated” Americans at that time, but the groups continued to identify themselves without worrying about the xenophobes. Now that members of a different group decided to employ the same naming convention, we find some people all up in arms that it is a BAD THING, while the people who originally used the same convention get a pass. \* [::: shrug :::] \* [Irish American Heritage Center](http://irish-american.org/) [Irish American Cultural Institute](http://www.iaci-usa.org/) [Irish American Heritage Museum](http://www.irishamericanheritagemuseum.org/) etc. [German-American Corner: History and Heritage](http://www.germanheritage.com/) [German-American Heritage Foundation of the USA®](http://www.ugac.org/) [German-American.com](http://www.german-american.com/) etc. [National Italian American Foundation](http://www.niaf.org/) [Italian American Cultural Organization](http://www.italiamerica.org/) [Italian American Museum](http://www.italianamericanmuseum.org/) etc. [Polish American Journal](http://www.polamjournal.com/) [Polish American Association](http://www.polish.org/?view=home) [Polish American Historical Association](http://www.polishamericanstudies.org/) etc. [Chinese American Museum](http://www.camla.org/) [Chinese American Service League](http://www.caslservice.org/) [Chinese American Heroes](http://www.chineseamericanheroes.org/) etc. ---
**Author:** ![Frank\_apisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/47e85d/32.png) [@Frank\_apisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank_apisa)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/138 "2010-02-07T20:49:32Z")
I understand the sensitivities of the black community on this issue…and try to use the phrase they prefer. It is just a common courtesy. But it can be taken too far. There was a moment during the OJ Simpson trial when Johnny Cochran was cross examining a forensic witness about a hair found in a cap. The witness mentioned that the hair was Negroid. Johnny Cochran used the moment to show indignation to the jury…and asked why the forensic community was not politically correct with the usage…and why African American rather than (what he considered to be the derogatory) Negroid had been used. The witness was flustered…fumbled around and in general just screwed the entire answer up. Actually apologized as I remember it. The correct answer would have been: Our science can tell us the race of the person who had this hair…but could not tell us his citizenship. African American would have been absolutely inappropriate in that context…and Negroid was completely proper. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/139 "2010-02-07T22:05:39Z")
> [@Frank\_apisa](#): > > Johnny Cochran used the moment to show indignation to the jury…and asked why the forensic community was not politically correct with the usage…and why African American rather than (what he considered to be the derogatory) Negroid had been used. > > The witness was flustered…fumbled around and in general just screwed the entire answer up. Actually apologized as I remember it. Cochran was a defense attorney. It was his job to fluster prosecution witnesses and make them look bad. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095/140 "2010-02-08T00:13:04Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That said, people can self-identify as whatever they want. Really? My ancestry is English/German. Can I self-identify as Asian American? African American? All it takes is to say you are a thing and you become that thing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-african-american/527095.md?page=8)