# I pit the phrase "Homicide Bomber" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 29, 2004, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075 "2004-12-29T08:45:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/1 "2004-12-29T08:45:44Z")
Because it’s a chickenshit phrase used by certain right wingers who wish to gloss over the fact that what really happened was a suicide bombing. I cringe whenever I hear it on Fox News. Do they call insurgents who plant bombs by the roadside and keep themselves at a safe distance from the blast to preserve their own lives “homicide bombers”? To my knowledge, no they don’t. The phrase is selectively used in place of “suicide bomber” because they are uncomfortable with the fact that someone sacrificied their own life to kill others. Honestly, I’m uncomfortable with it too. I don’t like how their suicides make them completely unaccountable for their actions, and how their last thoughts are about the 72 virgins they will screw in heaven. But I’m not going to use weasel words to pretend it didn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/2 "2004-12-29T09:03:55Z")
One of the best examples of Fox News’ idiocy regarding the phrase “homicide bomber” occurs in their version of this wire story from February 06, 2004, [Bomb Rips Apart Moscow Subway, Killing 39](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,110618,00.html): > [@](#): > > …although it was unclear whether the blast was the work of a homicide bomber or someone who merely placed a device on the train as it left the station. Right, guys, because people who merely place bombs on crowded subway trains and then stroll away aren’t, you know, _homicide_ bombers, just, um, bombers who are plotting to commit…er…ah…homicide. (Of course, this was really just an example of what happens when you give an idiot a “find and replace” function–it’s an AP wire story, and [other news sources’ version of the story](http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/attack/8885.php) did not contain the :smack: -worthy phraseology.) Interestingly, a Google search on the [foxnews.com](http://foxnews.com) domain for the phrase “homicide bomber” in conjunction with such search terms as “Unabomber”, “Kaczynski”, “McVeigh”, or “Eric Robert Rudolph” yields…zero hits. (Although, if you remove the “homicide bomber” verbiage, you get plenty of results.) If Ted Kaczynski and Tim McVeigh aren’t “homicide bombers”, then I don’t know who is. And Eric Robert Rudolph is certainly an “alleged” or “accused” homicide bomber. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/3 "2004-12-29T09:12:58Z")
Oddly enough that “72 Virgins” myth plays the very same role as ‘homicide bomber’. Could it be that a person could be so moved by some real and material passion that they choose to give their life for it? Could action of the US offend to provoke such a thing? No, it is more comfortable to assume the promise of an eternity of satiated lust. Why? Because the alternative is that you might consider the bravery involved. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/4 "2004-12-29T09:33:46Z")
Oh, they’re definitely brave. They’re also evil scum. Bravery, after all, is not a moral quality. Some of the most repulsive people in history - the Nazis, for instance - were undeniably brave. Calling your enemies courageous does not mean you’re conceding any moral ground, it just means your work is going to be more difficult. But the bravery of the suicide bombers (and yes , I don’t like the term “homicide bomber” either) is hardly important, because they themselves aren’t that important - they’re nothing more than an advanced form of guided munition. No, the real loathsome people are the ones who send the bombers on their mission, and _these_ are people who no-one would ever deem courageous. A leader who makes it a policy to send his soldiers to certain death while refusing to risk his own life cannot by any standard be called brave. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/5 "2004-12-29T09:42:34Z")
As so often occurs **Alessan** and I are in near total agreement. I mention this only because unusually we do differ on one point. He appears to have Israel in mind, I Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/6 "2004-12-29T09:51:53Z")
Actually, I’ve had a thought. Does anyone have evidence that suicide bombers _pace_, are enticed with promises of celestial virgins? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/7 "2004-12-29T09:54:48Z")
As I’ve said before, using the term “homicide bomber” indicates that the person substituting it for “suicide bomber” thinks suicide, and in particular suicide in the act of murdering people, is somehow noble. It isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/8 "2004-12-29T10:02:50Z")
Maybe we need a new term. I recommend “kaze”, from _kamikaze_. The term was coined by writer Stephen R. Donaldson in his _Gap Cycle_ science fiction novels, and it refers to a particulaly nasty from of terrorist who have explosives surgically implanted inside their bodies (a technology that isn’t that far away - and the thought of it should give us all some sleepless nights). ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/9 "2004-12-29T10:49:54Z")
It does sound a bit strained. Much like all the pretty euphemisms being employed these days in place of “terrorists”. But I fail to see the pitiable offence of “homicide bomber”, at least it seem to tackle the central element of what they do, kill civilians, rather that how they do it, by suicide or dynamite. Their own suicide was never the important part. The people they killed was. If method was the most important part, they might better have been described “dynamite and nail bombers”. “Kaze” is a very bad idea. Kamikaze pilots never targeted civilians. They would resent the comparison with Hamas dogs blowing up pizzerias and school busses. [http://www.stelzriede.com/ms/html/mshwma38.htm](http://www.stelzriede.com/ms/html/mshwma38.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/10 "2004-12-29T10:55:23Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > “Kaze” is a very bad idea. Kamikaze pilots never targeted civilians. They would resent the comparison with Hamas dogs blowing up pizzerias and school busses. In the novels they were used for poltical assasinations, which is neither here nor there… but I see your point. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/11 "2004-12-29T10:57:34Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Their own suicide was never the important part. But it is important in terms of tactics - it makes prevention way more difficult. In the same way way the policy that no baggage may fly with an airline unaccompanied worked well for preventing ‘regular’ terrorist bombers, but has now been largely negated due to the willingness of terrorists to die in their own atrocity. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/12 "2004-12-29T13:43:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Maybe we need a new term. But why? I mean, if you’re so damned uncomfortable with “suicide bomber” (and like jjim, I see nothing noble in suicide, so I see no problem with it) just call them bombers, or terrorist bombers, or terrorists. All are factually accurate and not as clumsy as “homicide bombers” or calling them the Japanese word for “wind”. Of course, this means that reporters would have to use another sentence to remark that they bomber took his own life in the process. Homicide bombers is just so damn redundant. Can you imagine a homicide shooter? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/13 "2004-12-29T13:50:06Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > But why? > > I mean, if you’re so damned uncomfortable with “suicide bomber” (and like jjim, I see nothing noble in suicide, so I see no problem with it) just call them bombers, or terrorist bombers, or terrorists. I have no problem with “suicide bomber”. It’s adequitely descriptive. I just think new terms are cool. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/14 "2004-12-29T14:13:42Z")
I never watch Faux News so I was blissfully unaware of the term “homocide bomber” until I saw it mentioned in the lame documentary _Outfoxed_. I guess they say it all the time huh? Give me a break. Call me crazy, but shouldn’t we call it what the police call it? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/15 "2004-12-29T14:16:01Z")
The phrase “homicide bomber” is redundant and stupid. “Suicide bomber” accurately describes the individual who performs the act without condoning it. > [@Sevastopol](#): > > Because the alternative is that you might consider the bravery involved. I don’t consider that “bravery” is involved in a form of suicide that includes the slaughter of innocent people, any more than I consider the husband who murders his estranged wife and then kills himself to be brave. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/16 "2004-12-29T14:21:49Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > As I’ve said before, using the term “homicide bomber” indicates that the person substituting it for “suicide bomber” thinks suicide, and in particular suicide in the act of murdering people, is somehow noble. It isn’t. I had never heard the phrase before this thread but I can understand why elements of the media would advocate the substitution. I heard Australian politician Joe Hockey speak on matters totally unrelated to the Middle East before the Press Club. At the end of his talk he was asked about the situation in Israel and Palestine. He revealed, surprisingly, that his family are Palestinian and that he is a frequent visitor to the area. When asked about the morality of “suicide bombers” he asked the audience to imagine living a life so barren of hope that when you are young “suicide bombing” seems like the smart choice. Thich Quang Duc proved to me when I was very young that different belief systems accomodate different ways of dealing with perceived injustice. While I understand your proscription against killing others in the pursuit of a cause and largely agree, I find it difficult to ignore the element of sacrifice required by “suicides” to a cause, be it Vietnamese monks, IRA prisoners, Palestinian youths. And I’m sure that media folks know that I feel like this and will do anything to deny me the opportunity to ever think it. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/17 "2004-12-29T14:28:02Z")
[Ari Fleischer](http://www.ajn.com.au/pages/archives/feature/feature-02n.html) uses it, for this reason: > [@](#): > > "At a meeting that morning I said to Dr [Condoleezza] Rice: ‘I’m going to call it a homicide bombing, do you have any objection?’” > > Dr Rice did not object, although Fleischer says he does not recall consulting the president. > > “It struck me as I was watching one attack after another attack in 2002 if this is suicide why are so many others dying? Innocents don’t die from suicide. They die from homicide. To me it was a plain matter of speaking English.” > > Although the term “suicide bombers” is still used by most media outlets, “homicide bombers” has been adopted by Fox News and the New York Post, along with a string of politicians, diplomats and others. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/18 "2004-12-29T14:38:57Z")
Innocents don’t die from the suicide part of the term. They die from the bomber part of the term. And Ari Fleischer wouldn’t know plain English if it bit him on the kiester. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/19 "2004-12-29T14:42:59Z")
Even more revealing. So it isn’t an invention of the media it was created by Republican fiat. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075/20 "2004-12-29T14:44:39Z")
As mentioned, the avoidance of the perfectly descriptive term “suicide bomber” (mostly driven by Murdoch Media, parent of FOX, at least in this part of the world) seems to come out of some twisted sense that “suicide” somehow recognizes honor or dignity upon the perpetrator. But I am another one who sees no such link. I suppose that you could call it a “human bomb”, but then you would still be recognizing the individual as human and I’m not sure FOX is up to that (me, I have no problem; we humans ARE the most dangerous thing walking the Earth). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-phrase-homicide-bomber/282075.md?page=2)