# I Pit the Pope **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 16, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775 "2017-11-16T16:38:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/21 "2017-11-16T20:49:55Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Basically all I’m saying is the pope should just shut the fuck up when he doesn’t know what he is talking about, and that includes pretty much everything outside the realm of bible study and missionary work. I think Popes (and other religious leaders) have been making statements about all sorts of things for a long time. It seems strange that this particular statement (that you don’t really disagree with) pushed you over the edge. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/22 "2017-11-16T21:34:54Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Basically all I’m saying is the pope should just shut the fuck up when he doesn’t know what he is talking about But if everyone followed that line of reasoning, we’d never hear from you. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/23 "2017-11-16T21:58:45Z")
Gotta be a refugee from a sock drawer. I’m guessing **Terrkrahoma**. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/24 "2017-11-16T22:08:07Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > I’m not sure I understand people who thought this guy was going to completely up-end Church doctrine. It’d be like buying a yellow Camaro and complaining that it won’t transform into a giant robot. > > I mean, there are Catholics who are still bitter about _Vatican II_ fercryinoutloud. LOTS of them, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/25 "2017-11-16T22:29:56Z")
Yes, a meaningless, feeble pitting. I’m pretty much the anti-Christ in my scathing criticism of organised religion - but you seem to have selected some sensible words from the least objectionable Pope to get all fired up about. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/26 "2017-11-16T22:49:45Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > So apparently Pope Francis has determined [more clinically prescribed death](https://cruxnow.com/global-church/2017/11/16/pope-francis-calls-european-physicians-morally-withdraw-overzealous-treatment/) might be a good distraction from the pedophilia, salacious depravity and greed presently confounding his institution. > > In all reality, probably not available to the vast majority of the world’s population. Who is the target audience for this ludicrous announcement? Doctor’s? Really? You could also pit the Pope for supporting climate science and advocating environmental stewardship. Morons like you are typically opposed to that, too. I’m not religious and I have no special love for the Pope, but Francis has generally been pretty much on the ball in the positions he’s taken on contemporary issues, striking a good balance between traditional doctrine, contemporary mores, and modern scientific knowledge. You, on the other hand, are a driveling fucking moron, at least judging by most of your posts so far. In fact if anyone has any doubts about Francis’ views on this difficult and complex issue, the fact that a troglodyte like you is pitting him should be ample proof that he must be right. And “doctor’s” what? Randomly throwing in apostrophes when pluralizing words is a sure sign that the moron in question is not only cognitively impaired, but is also a blithering illiterate. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2017, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/27 "2017-11-16T23:52:11Z")
I have no problem with Pope assuring his followers that they don’t need to grasp at pointless, expensive and painful extreme measures in a futile attempt to put off their deaths. I can only wish that his insistence that the patient is judge of what medical treatments she will receive can extend to women such as Savita Halappanavar, who died in a Dublin Catholic hospital after suffering a slow-motion miscarriage at 17 weeks. The priests & doctors refused to allow a D&C procedure to remove the remains of the placental material until the baby’s heartbeat stopped (although there was never any possibility that the baby would survive.) Halapannavar developed blood poisoning and died. This futile and extravagant end-of-life decision for a baby who was dying anyway led to the futile and easily preventable death of a young woman. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/28 "2017-11-17T00:08:52Z")
So maybe intensive care units should be stocking Bibles and doctors will be urged to consult with a priest before making treatment recommendations? ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/29 "2017-11-17T00:15:54Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > You could also pit the Pope for supporting climate science and advocating environmental stewardship. Morons like you are typically opposed to that, too. The pope can support anything he likes. I suppose supporting death is after all, one of his greatest achievements. More power to him! Any other irrelevant drivel you’d care to throw out? Idiots who do not understand the distinction between religion and medicine will get their just desserts sooner rather than later when lifesaving treatment is withheld for religious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/30 "2017-11-17T00:37:05Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > The pope can support anything he likes. I suppose supporting death is after all, one of his greatest achievements. More power to him! Any other irrelevant drivel you’d care to throw out? > > Idiots who do not understand the distinction between religion and medicine will get their just desserts sooner rather than later when lifesaving treatment is withheld for religious reasons. Next up, claiming doctor’s will let you die so your organ’s can be harvested. edited to add incorrect apostrophe’s. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/31 "2017-11-17T01:07:05Z")
I understand you mopes think it’s fun using the pit to lambaste other posters, but anyone who believes the Catholic church has any business interjecting their dogma into medicine on any level should seriously re-evaluate the extent of decay in their cognitive function. The church proffering a position on science in any form is total hypocrisy. Calling for more death in intensive care and assisted living facilities in the name of religion is just absolutely preposterous. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/32 "2017-11-17T01:13:25Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Calling for more death in intensive care and assisted living facilities in the name of religion is just absolutely preposterous. _Nothing in your cite says anything like that_. Nowhere is the Pope “calling for more death in the name of religion”. He’s saying that patients shouldn’t be forced to continue lifesaving treatments if they don’t want them or it doesn’t improve their quality of life, which is a belief most secularists on this board **agree** with. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/33 "2017-11-17T02:03:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > He’s saying that patients shouldn’t be forced to continue lifesaving treatments if they don’t want them or it doesn’t improve their quality of life… That wasn’t happening before the pope and his shills dreamed up this attempt to exercise relevancy in the age of Catholic decline. The level of hubris for a person in his position to suggest caregivers, family and patients themselves might somehow be remiss in managing end of life issues without considering some sectarian angle is just amazing. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/34 "2017-11-17T02:18:04Z")
Dude, he’s giving guidance to Catholic patients, families and providers. That is his goshdang JOB. > [@jz78817](#): > > I’m not sure I understand people who thought this guy was going to completely up-end Church doctrine. It’d be like buying a yellow Camaro and complaining that it won’t transform into a giant robot. > > I mean, there are Catholics who are still bitter about _Vatican II_ fercryinoutloud. Really. My standard phrase with every papal replacement in the internet age (JP2’s death and Benny’s retirement) has been “whoever it is, the Pope is NOT going to turn the RCC into the ELCA, stop wishing for it, it’s not happening.” Francis has most often merely restated what has been contained within Church teaching for a while or even all along, only in a gentler manner than many of his predecessors, who seemed to be convinced that they could not even seem to be softening. > [@Telemark](#): > > But if everyone followed that line of reasoning, we’d never hear from you. There’s perfection in that post 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/35 "2017-11-17T02:19:50Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > That wasn’t happening before the pope and his shills dreamed up this attempt to exercise relevancy 😕 “Wasn’t happening”? Do you seriously imagine that this sort of last-ditch painful prolongation of dying by excessive medical intervention hasn’t been a genuine problem in end-of-life medical care? I’m not claiming that religious leaders calling attention to this issue is particularly high on my list of effective strategies for addressing it, but if you think they just “dream up” its importance then you’re out of your mind. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/36 "2017-11-17T02:34:47Z")
It’s closer to tautologically pointless then it is controversial really. Without any specifics mentioned he basically just said “You shouldn’t go past the point that marks the point you shouldn’t go past” ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/37 "2017-11-17T02:43:22Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Dude, he’s giving guidance to Catholic patients, families and providers. That is his goshdang JOB. And I’ll take this opportunity to remind you of the title of the goshdang article: “Pope Francis calls European physicians to morally withdraw from ‘overzealous treatment.” See anything about patient’s and family in there? The pope is trying to tell doctors how to do their jobs, plain and simple: withdraw from overzealous treatment = more death. Shading it any other way is really dishonest, but I suppose that is to be expected of the pious - they can’t even be honest with themselves. Try re-reading the entire article for full effect. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > Francis has most often merely restated what has been contained within Church teaching for a while or even all along… Today he most often did this particular stunt for the first time. > [@Kimstu](#): > > 😕 “Wasn’t happening”? Do you seriously imagine that this sort of last-ditch painful prolongation of dying by excessive medical intervention hasn’t been a genuine problem in end-of-life medical care? Yeah right - shit happens. Any more shocking news for us? No, let’s just assume the church knows how to hanlde any EOL problems that might crop up - when in doubt, just pull the plug, right? ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/38 "2017-11-17T02:43:35Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Great, now I’ve got a Bobby Fuller song going through my head. > > _He had a message and > I had none > I Pit the Pope, and the > Pope won_ > [@simster](#): > > I shot the pope, but I did not shoot the cardinal ok - might not snyc, lyrically, with I **Pit the Pope** - sue me… \*Lord knows you got to change Po-ope Been Jammin’s grandstADin’ on your ass You let him down Po-ope Bibles in I.C.U.s and-now-a-who-knows-who He’s gettin tired, of how you, espouse this last cause But then you decide, he’s goin, through his own menopause This can’t go oooooooon Lord knows you got to change.\* ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/39 "2017-11-17T02:57:58Z")
At least he doesn’t live under a bridge, which is not something you can say about the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2017, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775/40 "2017-11-17T03:00:27Z")
> [@BeenJammin](#): > > Try re-reading the entire article for full effect. Alright, let’s do that. > [@](#): > > Francis said “the patient has the primary role” in the discussion regarding his own health. It’s the patient, according to Catholic teaching, who has the right to decide on the necessary treatment by discussing with his or her doctors the proportionality of the remedy and “refusing it if such proportionality is judged lacking,” the pope added. Why, goshdang it! It’s almost as if he’s saying the exact opposite of the words you’re putting into his mouth. > [@](#): > > The pope is trying to tell doctors how to do their jobs, plain and simple: withdraw from overzealous treatment = more death. No, it means the same amount of death, spaced out differently. We’re talking about end-of-life treatment here - you might get a few months, or weeks, or even days out of it, but it might not be worth it to you to go that route. What he’s saying here, if you read the article instead of just the headline, is reiterating what Pius XII said on the subject - withdrawl from treatment is neither euthanasia nor suicide. > [@](#): > > Shading it any other way is really dishonest, but I suppose that is to be expected of the pious - they can’t even be honest with themselves. Quite a lot of the people disagreeing with you on this are atheists, you know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-pope/801775.md?page=3)