# I pit the President for making the same excuse again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 20, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864 "2014-05-20T21:15:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/21 "2014-05-20T23:28:18Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > To fail in a way that breaks the health-care industry so badly that the ONLY plausible recovery path is the implementation of single-payer, that is. 😃 I could get on board with that. You’d better not let your OC neighbors hear you say that stuff, though; you’ll be tarred and feathered and dropped at the county line. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/22 "2014-05-20T23:29:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’d actually like to know what the President has done in the past 5 1/2 years. He entered knowing the VA was a problem. So I would honestly like to know what policy changes he implemented to solve that problem, and did he, like a good boss, follow up to make sure these changes were implemented? He put Shinseki in charge of the VA. Depending on whom you talk to, Shinseki has improved things somewhat or considerably. When the hospitals are lying, obfuscating and covering stuff up, it can be difficult for the head of the VA to even discover there is a problem. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/23 "2014-05-20T23:37:16Z")
Except the President was informed of the problem a year earlier. Was any action taken? If Bush can be blamed for 9/11 because of the “Bin Laden determined to strike the US” memo, which was non specific and came only a month before, then Obama can certainly be held responsible for being informed a full year ago, in specific fashion, about this problem. And I get that some people think I’m just doing this for partisan purposes. This is wrong, for two reasons: 1. The proper functioning of the government is a real issue for me and one I spent a lot of time criticizing when Bush was President, and complimenting when Clinton was President. I’m one of those conservatives who wants an efficient, well functioning government, and I get annoyed when Presidents dodge responsibility or just show a lack of interest. 2. There is no partisan purpose served by me pitting the President. Pitting is a genuine act of frustration with someone or something. The Kochs are not going to be running an ad highlighting adaher’s anger with the President. John Boehner will not be talking about this pitting in a news conference. And in any case, my motivations are irrelevant. This is a big issue and it should be covered and discussed: how can we have a democratic government where the bureaucracy is not accountable to elected officials? I keep on asking this but no one ever has an answer. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/24 "2014-05-20T23:38:34Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > He put Shinseki in charge of the VA. Depending on whom you talk to, Shinseki has improved things somewhat or considerably. When the hospitals are lying, obfuscating and covering stuff up, it can be difficult for the head of the VA to even discover there is a problem. Tue, I think. Also, remember that they were cooking the books (hiding the wait list) because they didn’t want the VA higher ups to know how bad it was. So, we can infer that they were getting pressure from above to do something about the problem. Rather than fix it, or tell the administration why it couldn’t be fixed, they hid the problem further. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/25 "2014-05-21T01:30:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > … A quick fix will potentially weaken or kill building a criminal case. Don’t care. Get the health care flow up to optimum in the minimum amount of time. If a scoundrel or several escape criminal prosecution, expose them to public disdain to the extent legally possible, and that will be that. I wouldn’t have a sick man suffer for five minutes longer in order to secure a prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/26 "2014-05-21T01:43:21Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > While your point is well taken, are the choices starkly between “quick fix” and “no fix?” > > And if they are, is “no fix” a worthwhile tradeoff for the sake of keeping a criminal case viable? > > I’m hopeful that the answer to the first question is “no” (rendering the second question moot). That said, what incremental fixes have been initiated, and when should some visible results become apparent? Or is that beyond the scope of the thread? > > ETA: P.S. I like your new .sig. 😃 No, those aren’t the choices – and so far as I am aware, the President isn’t saying there will be no fix. Several incremental fixes have begun. VA Phoenix officials have been placed on leave, Robert Petzel’s resignation was requested and accepted, and Rob Nabors, the Deputy Chief of Staff at the White House, has been assigned to coordinate review and specific further fixes. ETA: on the .sig – thanks!! Since the slow heat death of Usenet, I feel sigs haven’t gotten their due. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/27 "2014-05-21T02:05:11Z")
Granpa? What’s a “usenet”? ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/28 "2014-05-21T02:09:33Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Why, do you think it will hurt his re-election chances? Well, on the one hand, it would violate the Constitution for him to get elected again. But on the other hand, if **adaher** were to predict that he won’t be… ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/29 "2014-05-21T02:09:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Granpa? What’s a “usenet”? Don’t make me get my cane, sonny. . ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/30 "2014-05-21T02:16:10Z")
> [@waterj2](#): > > Well, on the one hand, it would violate the Constitution for him to get elected again. But on the other hand, if **adaher** were to predict that he won’t be… I really wish he would run for a second term. But in the meantime, the only way to hold him accountable is to punish his party. In the end, that’s all that could be done about Bush as well. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/31 "2014-05-21T02:19:35Z")
Neglect of the VA and failure to keep the promises made to veterans has always been a bipartisan affair as far as I can tell. Obama isn’t singularly responsible, but he’s done no better than any of the other presidents. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/32 "2014-05-21T02:20:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Don’t make me get my cane, sonny. Is that the one you said ran on something called “two”? “Dos”? Doesn’t that mean “two”? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/33 "2014-05-21T02:21:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I really wish he would run for a second term. Yeah, you’re clearly right on top of things. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/34 "2014-05-21T02:28:30Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Neglect of the VA and failure to keep the promises made to veterans has always been a bipartisan affair as far as I can tell. Obama isn’t singularly responsible, but he’s done no better than any of the other presidents. True. However, consistently using ignorance as an excuse for an epidemic of government wrongdoing is unique to this President. I’m sure we can all think of one or two examples of a President claiming ignorance of what his government is doing, but with Obama we’re now up to five: 1. IRS- Didn’t know nuthin’ 2. Website failure- Didn’t know nuthin’ 3. The NSA spying on foreign leaders and journalists- didn’t know nuthin’ 4. The health care law required cancellations of some plans- had no idea 5. VA-Didn’t know nuthin’ What’s funny is that the mainstream media has been treating his claims of ignorance with exactly as much scorn as they deserve. SDMB’s liberals have a different opinion, apparently. A runaway bureaucracy, uncontrollable by the President or his Cabinet, is apparently perfectly normal. This pitting isn’t for what went wrong at the VA. The pitting is for his lame excuses. What didn’t he know and when didn’t he know it? We haven’t seen this since Reagan’s senile years. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/35 "2014-05-21T02:37:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > True. However, consistently using ignorance as an excuse for an epidemic of government wrongdoing is unique to this President. I’m sure we can all think of one or two examples of a President claiming ignorance of what his government is doing, but with Obama we’re now up to five: > > 1. IRS- Didn’t know nuthin’ > 2. Website failure- Didn’t know nuthin’ > 3. The NSA spying on foreign leaders and journalists- didn’t know nuthin’ > 4. The health care law required cancellations of some plans- had no idea > 5. VA-Didn’t know nuthin’ > > What’s funny is that the mainstream media has been treating his claims of ignorance with exactly as much scorn as they deserve. SDMB’s liberals have a different opinion, apparently. A runaway bureaucracy, uncontrollable by the President or his Cabinet, is apparently perfectly normal. How is this different from other presidents excuses for the failures in their administration? And it certainly is no worse than the flat out lies that presidents are well known for. Your rant is obviously feigned outrage about a matter you didn’t care about in the least until you could think of a way to use it to bash Obama. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/36 "2014-05-21T02:39:19Z")
The Veterans Administration has been messed up for years. I recall reading about how Viet Nam era vets were neglected back in the 1970’s. Wars, which increase the number of vets needing treatment, make the situation worse. - Obama is at fault for not fixing the mess he inherited from Bush43. - Bush43 is at fault for not fixing the mess he inherited from Clinton and for making matters far worse by starting two wars and under-funding the VA even more than it had been under Clinton. - Clinton is at fault for not fixing the mess he inherited from Bush 41, etc. etc., back to LBJ - at least. It seems to me the problem with the VA situation is that there aren’t really enough votes to make fixing it a top political priority and no big bucks to be made. Kind of like orphan drugs. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/37 "2014-05-21T03:10:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’d actually like to know what the President has done in the past 5 1/2 years. He entered knowing the VA was a problem. So I would honestly like to know what policy changes he implemented to solve that problem, and did he, like a good boss, follow up to make sure these changes were implemented? The definition of a back logged claim in the VA system was reduced from 180 to 120 days, and the rules relating to the diagnosis of PTSD and Agent Orange exposure were relaxed to allow many thousands of Vietnam-era veterans to finally get disability benefits. So he’s got that going for him. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/38 "2014-05-21T03:28:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > . . . Bureaucracies will not do their jobs unless constantly monitored. Just as with businesses, self-regulation does not work. . . . True. And it’s the Republicans who continue to deny funding to such bureaucracies. They’re the bad guys in this story. Huge toxic chemical spill in Kentucky? Blame the EPA for not monitoring toxic chemicals? How can they, when the Republican Congress won’t vote funds for the EPA to do their job? Ambassador killed in Benghazi? Blame the State Department for not having enough security to protect our diplomats overseas? How can they, when the Republican Congress denies funds for this purpose? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/39 "2014-05-21T09:03:41Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Neglect of the VA and failure to keep the promises made to veterans has always been a bipartisan affair as far as I can tell. Obama isn’t singularly responsible, but he’s done no better than any of the other presidents. Or any worse. It irritates me when I see how little Obama is criticized for Guantanamo by the left – when Bush was in office, the very existence of the prison at Guantanamo was a betrayal of American ideals. With Obama at the helm, the volume and ferocity of such criticism has dramatically dropped…which suggests that the bulk of that criticism was a result of wanting to criticize a Republican as opposed to any real concern about the issue. This thread is the same type of criticism. Obama’s performance on this issue is not worse than his predecessor, or his predecessor’s predecessor, and so on. Dialing up the outrage now suggests to me that the desire is to criticize Obama as opposed to genuine outrage at the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/40 "2014-05-21T09:07:20Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > True. And it’s the Republicans who continue to deny funding to such bureaucracies. They’re the bad guys in this story. > > Huge toxic chemical spill in Kentucky? Blame the EPA for not monitoring toxic chemicals? How can they, when the Republican Congress won’t vote funds for the EPA to do their job? > > Ambassador killed in Benghazi? Blame the State Department for not having enough security to protect our diplomats overseas? How can they, when the Republican Congress denies funds for this purpose? This criticism is also misplaced. President Obama’s party controlled the House and Senate when he took office. There was no “Republican Congress.” The truth is something partisans on both sides find unpalatable: we as a country have never allocated sufficient resources and oversight to veterans’ care. We suck, in this instance. The “we” is not limited to elephants or donkeys. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864.md?page=3)