# I pit the President for making the same excuse again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 20, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864 "2014-05-20T21:15:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/81 "2014-05-21T14:56:48Z")
Not searching for the link, but there was the time \*\*adaher \*\*insisted that Obama was unqualified to be President because he doesn’t know every single detail about everything everyone in the Executive Branch is doing. Dance, clown, dance! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/82 "2014-05-21T14:57:50Z")
And even when they are, if you don’t like, you declare it “wrong”. As for who is paying attention, these threads have 20x more readers than posters, and I’m sure at least some of them see through your absurd debate tactics. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/83 "2014-05-21T14:59:49Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Not searching for the link, but there was the time \*\*adaher \*\*insisted that Obama was unqualified to be President because he doesn’t know every single detail about everything everyone in the Executive Branch is doing. > > Dance, clown, dance! I doubt i said that. That would be stupid. What I probably said is that he’s RESPONSIBLE for what is done in the executive branch, in the same way a CEO is responsible for what is doing in his company or a general is responsible for what happens in his army. The executive branch is broken, apparently, because there is no accountability anywhere, and certainly none at the top. It’s a source of neverending amusement to me that Doper liberals consistently hold business executives and even fellow posters to a higher standard than elected officials. It’s an admission that government is incompetent and dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/84 "2014-05-21T15:03:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The media is pretty much united in scorn for the President’s accountability-dodging, but the liberal dopers are resolute in holding him responsible only in the most general sense, if that. I don’t have the time or expertise to watch CNN 24/7 and micromanage the Fed government. :smack: What little I know about the misbegotten Iraq adventure was learned leisurely reading books. But my general reaction is huge appreciation and admiration for Obama and the Clintons for holding up under malicious GOP witch-hunts that almost border on treason. I realize that Benghazi-gate, VA-gate, and the semen-stained dress-Gate were tragedies that dwarfed the Iraq Stupidity, with its cost of mere trillions of dollars and only several hundred-thousands of lives. But can you imagine the GOP outrage that would have ensued had the Democrats paid as much attention to that mistake as Republicans pay to Benghazi? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/85 "2014-05-21T15:03:48Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > It does, if you think there are higher priorities elsewhere. Well, I guess I am assuming that Obama and Clinton hold that there is no higher priority than saving attempting to save the lives of those serving under them when they are asked for help because they fear for their safety. I can see how that might be a hasty assumption. But even if there priorities allow them to treat the lives of an Ambassador and those serving with him cheaply, you’d think they’d have gotten him pout of there. Lie the Brits did. I mean those lives have _some_ value, don’t they. I mean beyond the PR nightmare they’re causing Obama and Clinton. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > If we’re talking about Ambassador Stevens, he didn’t need to pull out of Benghazi, just not go there. The embassy is in Tripoli. This does not address the point I made. It also implies that you think there was no good reason that he was in Benghazi. The fair assumption is that he had good reason to be in Benghazi. Just as the fair assumption is that he had good reason to be in Libya. You make it sound like he left his post to to go party on Spring Break. But your logic is unassailable on one point: I he had stayed home in the U.S., no problem! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/86 "2014-05-21T15:10:22Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > But my general reaction is huge appreciation and admiration for Obama and the Clintons for holding up under malicious GOP witch-hunts that almost border on treason. You may think the oversight is aggressive and unfair, but treason? You’re nuts. > [@](#): > > I realize that Benghazi-gate, VA-gate, and the semen-stained dress-Gate were tragedies that dwarfed the Iraq Stupidity, with its cost of mere trillions of dollars and only several hundred-thousands of lives. But can you imagine the GOP outrage that would have ensued had the Democrats paid as much attention to that mistake as Republicans pay to Benghazi? You’re forgetting something. The GOP paid for those mistakes, dearly. You seem to imply that Democrats should not be held accountable for their performance. Either that, or you think their performance has been just peachy. What the rest of the country sees is a government that is broken, and the VA scandal is further evidence of that. The party of government has failed to improve the government. They’ve made it worse, actually, and by claiming that the bureaucracy is unmanageable and thus not any elected official’s fault, they provide an ironclad argument for curtailing the bureaucracy. A democracy cannot survive with an unaccountable bureaucracy that no one can control and which no elected official can be held accountable for. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/87 "2014-05-21T15:18:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What the rest of the country sees is a government that is broken. You have no business speaking for ‘the rest of the country’. Speak for yourself. Get that part right first before you think you have the standing to speak for the rest of the country. Your opinions are just that, your opinions. The rest of the country can speak for themselves. You are not their spokesperson. Far from it. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/88 "2014-05-21T15:26:20Z")
“Unsurprisingly, **adaher** , you’re wrong.” – _The Rest of the Country_ ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/89 "2014-05-21T15:27:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You may think the oversight is aggressive and unfair, but treason? You’re nuts. Oversight? I refer to threats to force the U.S. Treasury into default, and sabotaging the economy because “the highest priority is to make Obama fail.” Someone’s nuts but it’s not Obama and his supporters. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/90 "2014-05-21T16:01:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by adaher > Challenge: Find TWO examples from any previous administration where ignorance of what their own government was doing was used as an excuse. The only one you might find is Reagan. Other Presidents either did not experience this much trouble with their government, or chose another means to quiet the furor. Seriously? Was there ever a scandal where the president didn’t claim ignornnce of what their own government was doing? Let’s start with[Teapot Dome](http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1377.html): > [@](#): > > There was no reasonable suggestion that Harding either knew about this affair or profited from it. His failure was not greed, but rather making some poor choices for cabinet positions and failing to monitor them. The Teapot Dome Scandal was lasting blot on the record of his administration. Or how about the [GSA scandal](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/30/AR2008043001271.html)? > [@](#): > > General Services Administration chief Lurita Alexis Doan has resigned as head of the government’s premier contracting agency at the request of the White House, ending a tumultuous tenure in which she was accused of trying to award work to a friend and misusing her authority for political ends. > > “I have been asked by the White House to resign,” Doan said in a voice-mail message left with a Washington Post reporter. She added in a statement: “It has been a great privilege to serve our nation and a great President.” Did Bush say he was aware or unaware of what she was doing? I can’t recall. Here’s a [list of scandals](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_scandals_in_the_United_States#1993.E2.80.932001_Bill_Clinton_Administration), I would venture a bet that in 99% of the cases listed, the official response contained some form of “the President didn’t know about that.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/91 "2014-05-21T16:46:46Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > You have no business speaking for ‘the rest of the country’. Speak for yourself. Get that part right first before you think you have the standing to speak for the rest of the country. Your opinions are just that, your opinions. The rest of the country can speak for themselves. You are not their spokesperson. Far from it. Well, if you want to know why Democrats are going to lose and why the President’s approval rating is in the shitter, you could do a lot worse than to listen to my ideas. It’s better than “It’s all Republicans fault!” If the rest of the country saw that, Democrats wouldn’t be in trouble right now. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/92 "2014-05-21T16:48:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, if you want to know why Democrats are going to lose and why the President’s approval rating is in the shitter, you could do a lot worse than to listen to my ideas. How’d that work out for ya last time, chum? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/93 "2014-05-21T16:49:46Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Did Bush say he was aware or unaware of what she was doing? I can’t recall. There wasn’t much point in even asking him, was there? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/94 "2014-05-21T16:53:40Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Here’s a [list of scandals](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_scandals_in_the_United_States#1993.E2.80.932001_Bill_Clinton_Administration), I would venture a bet that in 99% of the cases listed, the official response contained some form of “the President didn’t know about that.” You would be only half right. First, Presidents often don’t even feel the need to say it. It’s either already assumed, if it was deep in the bowels of the bureaucracy, or one of their close advisors misled them. If the culprit is known, then there’s no need to ask the President what he knew: it’s already known. The reason the President has to claim ignorance is because the public doesn’t know who did what, and the President hasn’t really been trying too hard to find out. Second, sometimes President don’t protest that they didn’t know anything because it just doesn’t fucking matter. GWB didn’t run FEMA directly, but there was never a question in anyone’s mind that FEMA’s failures were his failures. If he’d protested that he was unaware that FEMA wasn’t ready for Katrina he would have been laughed at even more than he was. Obama is judged by a different standard, at least by SDMB, if not the media, which has been remarkably consistent about holding Obama to the same standard they held Bush. Claiming ignorance deserves derision, and that’s what Obama has gotten. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/95 "2014-05-21T16:55:01Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > How’d that work out for ya last time, chum? 😉 How’s it working out this time? Can you say, lame duck? Even before the 2014 elections, he’s got no political capital. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/96 "2014-05-21T16:56:24Z")
Obama isn’t running this year, tool. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/97 "2014-05-21T16:59:04Z")
ONly a tool believes that an election is the end of the story. The President can’t get anything done with a 44% approval rating. And he’s about to flirt with the 30s again if the relentless negative media keeps up. He went to the well with his lame excuses once too often. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/98 "2014-05-21T17:03:13Z")
The subject you were discussing was the 2014 elections, tool. And why we should listen to your “ideas”. 😃 Homework assignment: Look up your own party’s approval ratings and report back to us. You’ll still be a tool, but perhaps a slightly better informed one. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/99 "2014-05-21T17:04:09Z")
I’m well aware of the GOP’s unpopularity. So how come the Democrats are in trouble? Becuase they are the ruling party and because the party of government has demonstrated the incompetence and corruption of the government. How would you expect the public to react to that? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/100 "2014-05-21T17:06:16Z")
That, after all your posts crowing that the Republicans are really in control? 😃 Tool. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864.md?page=6)