# I pit the President for making the same excuse again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 20, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864 "2014-05-20T21:15:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/121 "2014-05-21T17:46:00Z")
It should be obvious by now that my self-esteem is bullet proof. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/122 "2014-05-21T17:48:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ll explain it if you can show some cites that the President and the Majority Leader “oppose deportation”. > > Note that you said “oppose deportation”, not “oppose some deportations”. I know they oppose some deportations. But opposing deportation – which means _all_ deportation? I’d love to see a cite for that. Nancy Pelosi basically went through what you guys put me through by the media, and she did about as well as i did: [http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/03/pelosi\_on\_unamerican\_immigrati.html](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/03/pelosi_on_unamerican_immigrati.html) She supports enforcement, but not any specific kind that is actually done. Meanwhile, in the other thread, Reid urged the President to end deportations by executive order. I’m not sure what nuance there is in “ending deportations”. Key quote: \*\* If she doesn’t like the law, she should change it. She’s the speaker. \*\* Yep. But no, Democrats want to pass a law and then decry its enforcement. It’s a game, but it’s their usual MO. They must hide their true beliefs from the public. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/123 "2014-05-21T17:48:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Boy, you sure know how to jump the gun. Do you always think you’re right before your ideas have even been challenged? > > The President and the Senate Majority Leader have called for an end to deportations. A prominent Democrat has called deportation “un-American”. > > If you are against deportation, then you are against immigration enforcement, which means you’re for open borders. Well, that’s just not true at all. You could support a huge fence, with land mines and guard dogs, but oppose deportation for people already in the country. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/124 "2014-05-21T17:48:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It should be obvious by now that my self-esteem is bullet proof. It wasn’t after the 2012 election, when you disappeared for quite a long time. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/125 "2014-05-21T17:49:19Z")
He’s decided the last election didn’t even happen, remember? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/126 "2014-05-21T17:53:05Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Well, that’s just not true at all. You could support a huge fence, with land mines and guard dogs, but oppose deportation for people already in the country. Perhaps, but I don’t see any Democrats in favor of that either. At best, they’ve voted for it when under electoral pressure, but they make clear their distaste for it. Also, that’s a serious loophole. Imagine if other laws worked that way, you could only be arrested if caught in the act. Otherwise, you already did it, it’s done, you’re free to go. It’s a big enough loophole that it does in fact constitute non-enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/127 "2014-05-21T17:55:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, I’m a dumbass QFT. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/128 "2014-05-21T18:29:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Nancy Pelosi basically went through what you guys put me through by the media, and she did about as well as i did: > > [http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/03/pelosi\_on\_unamerican\_immigrati.html](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/03/pelosi_on_unamerican_immigrati.html) > > She supports enforcement, but not any specific kind that is actually done. > > Meanwhile, in the other thread, Reid urged the President to end deportations by executive order. I’m not sure what nuance there is in “ending deportations”. > > Key quote: > > \*\* If she doesn’t like the law, she should change it. She’s the speaker. > > \*\* > > Yep. But no, Democrats want to pass a law and then decry its enforcement. It’s a game, but it’s their usual MO. They must hide their true beliefs from the public. So, nothing on support for open borders. The wrongness continues. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/129 "2014-05-21T18:48:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It should be obvious by now that my self-esteem is bullet proof. I wonder if that’s somehow related to the phenomenon of your arguments constantly getting shot down. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/130 "2014-05-21T19:08:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And the money didn’t help much, did it? Showing that funding and performance do not tend to be related when we’re talking about government. Have our schools gotten better with the massive increase in funding they’ve seen over the last few decades? Spending=results only when there is accountability. The federal government does not practice accountability, in fact it creates systems to make sure accountability can never happen. Do you have any idea how many thousands of veterans became eligible for VA benefits during the last five years? And that the biggest group of them are Vietnam veterans who were not eligible for VA benefits until a change in regulations on how presumption of connection to Agent Orange exposure was promulgated by Shinseki? Are you suggesting that VA benefits should not have increased during the last five years, and the nation would be better off? Of course you aren’t, because you’re an intellectual coward who is too lazy to bother himself with any facts. That’s why you thought all the polls were wrong in 2012, that’s why you don’t understand that aging veterans are eligible for more benefits today than they were five years ago, and that’s why you are an idiotic political hack who makes Rush Limbaugh look like George Will in terms of being able to put forward cogent arguments. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/131 "2014-05-21T21:00:44Z")
Continuing **adaher** ’s “Why be wrong most of the time, when with a little extra effort you can be wrong all of the time?” philosophy: > [@adaher](#): > > Second, sometimes President don’t protest that they didn’t know anything because it just doesn’t fucking matter. GWB didn’t run FEMA directly, but there was never a question in anyone’s mind that FEMA’s failures were his failures. If he’d protested that he was unaware that FEMA wasn’t ready for Katrina he would have been laughed at even more than he was. Nancy Pelosi (Sept. 7, 1991): When I said to the president that he should fire Michael Brown, he said, “Why would I do that?” I said, “Because of all that went wrong, with all that didn’t go right last week.” And he said, “What didn’t go right?” > **[Media ignored, mischaracterized Pelosi's account of Bush query on federal...](https://www.mediamatters.org/george-w-bush/media-ignored-mischaracterized-pelosis-account-bush-query-federal-response-katrina)** ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/132 "2014-05-21T21:01:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > All I really ask is that he say, “Yeah, it looks like we dropped the ball on this.” and recognize that since there is an identifiable pattern of governmental incompetence and mismanagement, that he make it a priority to fix it. Well, you didn’t get that from George W. Bush. His M.O. was to deny that anything was a problem. He didn’t say “I just learned about this from the press and now I’ll try to fix it,” he said “Brownie, you’re doing a heck of a job”, he pardoned Scooter Libby, and I don’t know if he ever even mentioned waterboarding at Guantanamo. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/133 "2014-05-21T21:46:57Z")
Have you ever been right? About anything? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/134 "2014-05-22T00:13:34Z")
C’mon back, **adaher** ; tell us why Katrina, Plame, and waterboarding don’t count against Bush. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/135 "2014-05-22T01:25:00Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/136 "2014-05-22T02:03:33Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Have you ever been right? About anything? Just once. [QUOTE=adaher] I’m a dumbass [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/137 "2014-05-22T02:09:58Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > Nancy Pelosi (Sept. 7, 1991): When I said to the president that he should fire Michael Brown, he said, “Why would I do that?” I said, “Because of all that went wrong, with all that didn’t go right last week.” And he said, “What didn’t go right?” I’m pretty sure that the date on that quotation is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/138 "2014-05-22T02:43:51Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I’m pretty sure that the date on that quotation is incorrect. The Sept 7th’s right. Haven’t the foggiest how I mutilated the year into 1991. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/139 "2014-05-24T02:36:27Z")
I tell ya, there is no one more consistently outraged about the administration than Barack Obama. He’s going to go down in history as the President who spent more time fighting his own administration than the Republicans or foreign enemies. I wonder why his people are serving him so poorly? I thought they loved him. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864/140 "2014-05-24T02:57:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I tell ya, there is no one more consistently outraged about the administration than Barack Obama. He’s going to go down in history as the President who spent more time fighting his own administration than the Republicans or foreign enemies. You seem to forget that “living in interesting times” is not a blessing but a curse. > [@adaher](#): > > I wonder why his people are serving him so poorly? I thought they loved him. “I belong to no organized party, I’m a Democrat.” -Will Rogers. And then it is a nice racket to forget that a lot of the Republican “hands off” approach has a lot to do with issues that fester. > **[Why didn't Sen. McCain spot the VA crisis?](https://www.azcentral.com/story/ejmontini/2014/05/21/president-obama-senator-john-mccain-veterans-administration-va-hospital/9379599/)** > > EJ Montini: Members of Congress are good at throwing stones but not at being accountable. > [@](#): > > During his remarks President Obama acknowledged that the ultimate responsibility for problems at the VA rest with him, since the problem surfaced on his watch. He’s right. > > But is it not also McCain’s watch? > > Should not members of Congress display a little of that “leadership” and “accountability” McCain talked about? > > John McCain has been a U.S. Senator for a very, very long time. He has a strong connection to the military based on his own service and his time as a POW in Vietnam. He cares deeply about veterans and veterans issues. > > The crisis with the VA hospitals came to light because of problems in Phoenix – McCain’s home city. > > So is it fair to ask: Where was John McCain when these problems were developing? > > He’s a senior senator. He’s the state’s highest ranking federal official. He is deeply concerned with veterans issues. Should he or his staff have a strong connection to the local VA? Given that, does McCain feel as if HE bears any responsibility for not recognizing a problem? > > Should he? > > Or should members of Congress who represent communities where VA problems have surfaced bear no responsibility at all? > > And if so, why not? > > Serving their constituencies the most important job of elected officials. > > Are not veterans a key element of that constituency? > > I get the idea that the buck stops with the president. It should. > > But shouldn’t there be a few stops along the way with members of Congress? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-president-for-making-the-same-excuse-again/688864.md?page=8)