# I pit the rape culture at the University of Virginia **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 24, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515 "2014-11-24T20:01:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/1 "2014-11-24T20:01:15Z")
[A Rape on Campus: A Brutal Assault and Struggle for Justice at UVA](http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/a-rape-on-campus-20141119) Of course UVa is not alone, but as the linked Rolling Stone article shows, they’re about as horrible as possible. It seems schools with Greek culture are more likely to also have a rape culture. The specific frat in this case is Phi Kappa Psi. UVa hired a very warm and compassionate female dean to hear rape complaints. She’s loved by the victims who report their assaults to her. But, reading between the lines, it becomes obvious her real job is to stifle those complaints and protect the university’s reputation, not seek justice for the violated women. > [@](#): > > Lots of people have discouraged her from sharing her story, Jackie tells me with a pained look, including the trusted UVA dean to whom Jackie reported her gang-rape allegations more than a year ago. > [@](#): > > UVA’s emphasis on honor is so pronounced that since 1998, 183 people have been expelled for honor-code violations such as cheating on exams. And yet paradoxically, not a single student at UVA has ever been expelled for sexual assault. > [@](#): > > And yet the UVA public-relations team seemed unenthused about this article, canceling my interview with the head of UVA’s Sexual Misconduct Board, and forbidding other administrators from cooperating; > [@](#): > > Eventually, UVA furnished Rolling Stone with some of its most recent tally: In the last academic year, 38 students went to Eramo about a sexual assault, up from about 20 students three years ago. However, of those 38, only nine resulted in “complaints”; the other 29 students evaporated. Of those nine complaints, four resulted in Sexual Misconduct Board hearings. UVA wasn’t willing to disclose their outcomes, citing privacy. Like most colleges, sexual-assault proceedings at UVA unfold in total secrecy. Asked why UVA doesn’t publish all its data, President Sullivan explains that it might not be in keeping with “best practices” and thus may inadvertently discourage reporting. Jackie got a different explanation when she’d eventually asked Dean Eramo the same question. She says Eramo answered wryly, “Because nobody wants to send their daughter to the rape school.” My big takeaway is that freshman orientation should include a very strong recommendation that all assaults should be reported to the police if the victim is interested in justice. This would also serve as warning to potential rapists that they will be punished for the crime that so often in the past went unreported. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/2 "2014-11-24T20:33:52Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > My big takeaway is that freshman orientation should include a very strong recommendation that all assaults should be reported to the police if the victim is interested in justice. That sounds rather late. _Middle school sex ed classes_ should teach that all sexual assaults should be reported to the police. Hell, have them teach students that college administrators are crooks whose real job is to stifle those complaints and protect the university’s reputation, not seek justice for the violated women. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/3 "2014-11-24T21:55:22Z")
This is a pretty powerful interview, too: > **['Law and Justice Aren't the Same': Interview With a UVA Rape Survivor](https://jezebel.com/law-and-justice-arent-the-same-interview-with-a-uva-ra-1662629605)** > > In the history of UVA, only 14 students have ever been found guilty of sexual misconduct. One of these cases was adjudicated in September 2006, while I was attending the school as an undergrad, and—though I didn't know it at the time—in class with... ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2014, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/4 "2014-11-24T22:44:20Z")
Anybody remember when _Rolling Stone_ was worth a shit? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2014, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/5 "2014-11-24T22:54:20Z")
The problem with what is going on is right there in the title, “…Struggle for Justice.” How does anyone think they will get anything approaching justice from a dean? This came up a little while ago with Columbia University. They don’t even have a police force. At least UVA has a police department. Bottom line, no school administration should be involved until after the criminal investigation is done. There should be no dean handling criminal matters of any kind. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2014, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/6 "2014-11-24T23:01:51Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > [A Rape on Campus: A Brutal Assault and Struggle for Justice at UVA](http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/a-rape-on-campus-20141119) > > Of course UVa is not alone, but as the linked Rolling Stone article shows, they’re about as horrible as possible. It seems schools with Greek culture are more likely to also have a rape culture. The specific frat in this case is Phi Kappa Psi. > > UVa hired a very warm and compassionate female dean to hear rape complaints. She’s loved by the victims who report their assaults to her. But, reading between the lines, it becomes obvious her real job is to stifle those complaints and protect the university’s reputation, not seek justice for the violated women. > > My big takeaway is that freshman orientation should include a very strong recommendation that all assaults should be reported to the police if the victim is interested in justice. This would also serve as warning to potential rapists that they will be punished for the crime that so often in the past went unreported. How about cracking down on alcohol abuse, underage drinking, and frat-house parties? It’s not only rape that these things are associated with. After reading the Atlantic article earlier this year, I think social fraternities with private housing should be banned altogether. > [@Gatopescado](#): > > Anybody remember when _Rolling Stone_ was worth a shit? Uh wha?? > [@Loach](#): > > The problem with what is going on is right there in the title, “…Struggle for Justice.” How does anyone think they will get anything approaching justice from a dean? This came up a little while ago with Columbia University. They don’t even have a police force. At least UVA has a police department. Bottom line, no school administration should be involved until after the criminal investigation is done. There should be no dean handling criminal matters of any kind. It’s not just a criminal matter. It’s also a student disciplinary matter. That should forward regardless of whether there is a criminal proceeding at all, or whether there is a conviction. Even an acquittal in a criminal case doesn’t mean that the accused should be allowed to stay in school. The university doesn’t have to find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt to expel. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2014, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/7 "2014-11-24T23:03:51Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Anybody remember when _Rolling Stone_ was worth a shit? Yes ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/8 "2014-11-24T23:54:24Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Anybody remember when _Rolling Stone_ was worth a shit? [I know they were worth something in 2012.](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/pictures/the-voter-fraud-myth-debunked-20120612) ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/9 "2014-11-25T00:25:51Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Anybody remember when _Rolling Stone_ was worth a shit? Read Matt Taibbi’s columns on national politics. He’s worth it alone. One wonders if the school would have shut down the football program if the woman had been raped by a group of football players. Or, even worse, considering it’s UVa, basketball players. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/10 "2014-11-25T00:32:46Z")
It happens at all campuses, and, sadly, our young women are putting themselves in these dangerous situations (i.e. piss-drunk at a frat party at 2am). It is incumbent that we properly punish those who rape and that we raise awareness of the situations and poor decision-making that lead to so many of these tragic situations. No, I’m not blaming the victim. I’m blaming our let’s-have-the-media-raise-our-children-for-us mentality that turns a blind eye to the sexualization (see: derogation) of women and their bodies. For a prime example, [look at JLo’s new hit single with Iggy Azalea](http://youtu.be/nxtIRArhVD4). Millions of young women look up these pop stars as role models. Then they go to college, shake their booties, get drunk at frat parties, end up getting raped, and the cycle continues. If you want to call this victim-blaming, go right ahead. I know my (someday) daughters will be well aware of what young men to avoid and what situations to avoid. Life can’t always be an MTV music video. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/11 "2014-11-25T00:35:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [I know they were worth something in 2012.](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/pictures/the-voter-fraud-myth-debunked-20120612) [sub]Never read the comments…NEVER READ THE COMMENTS…N…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/12 "2014-11-25T00:42:48Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It’s not just a criminal matter. It’s also a student disciplinary matter. That should forward regardless of whether there is a criminal proceeding at all, or whether there is a conviction. Even an acquittal in a criminal case doesn’t mean that the accused should be allowed to stay in school. The university doesn’t have to find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt to expel. A concurrent investigation by the school administration will almost assuredly be detrimental to any criminal investigation. If you don’t want to make it a criminal investigation it should be required to inform you that going forward with any administrative proceeding will likely ruin any chance of a criminal prosecution. If all you are looking for is an expulsion fine. But that is not justice. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/13 "2014-11-25T01:14:23Z")
Strange times for Charlottesville. I’m currently living here on a short-term contract. I was here two years ago for six months as well. The official motto is “A World Class City.” You see as a printed seal on the sides of police cars and in the lobby of government buildings. It’s a classic case of trying a little too hard. This is a small town. When a major crime occurs, it consumes the whole place instead of being lost in the noise of a major city. The perception is that it has become a dangerous place for young women. A few years ago [Morgan Harrington](http://www.nbc29.com/story/11881412/police-believe-body-may-be-morgan-harrington) was abducted and murdered. Last year it was [Alexis Murphy](http://www.nbc29.com/story/23086283/timeline-the-search-for-alexis-murphy). This fall, of course, UVA student [Hannah Graham](http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/24/us/virginia-hannah-graham-remains-identified/) was kidnapped and murdered. There have been several other recent cases as well. Long before Rolling Stone outed the UVA frats, you heard stories around town about young women being attacked at campus parties. It’s hard not to wonder what the fuck is going on around here. Obviously everyone should warn their daughters about getting piss drunk at frat parties or anywhere else that isn’t safe. But the guys are getting piss drunk too and nobody is raping them. Let’s not forget where the actual responsibility lies in these cases. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/14 "2014-11-25T02:39:00Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > If you want to call this victim-blaming, go right ahead. Not that I need your permission, but allrighty. I think I’ll do that. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/15 "2014-11-25T02:40:06Z")
Does anybody remember the days before Jennifer Lopez, when nobody got raped? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/16 "2014-11-25T02:48:14Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > If you want to call this victim-blaming, go right ahead. I know my (someday) daughters will be well aware of what young men to avoid and what situations to avoid. Life can’t always be an MTV music video. You seem to be blaming J-Lo and MTV, which is possibly even _dumber_ than blaming the victim. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/17 "2014-11-25T02:51:04Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > If you want to call this victim-blaming, go right ahead. I know my (someday) daughters will be well aware of what young men to avoid and what situations to avoid. Life can’t always be an MTV music video. “What young men to avoid”? Could you go into detail on that one? I was under the impression that most rapes were done by people the victim knows. For what it’s worth, I don’t think you’re victim-blaming - your low opinion of people seems applied to non-victims, too. Young people, their parents, the media, celebrities. Lots of folk to blame! ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/18 "2014-11-25T13:10:55Z")
So apparently this needs to be said: a rapist is not an unavoidable force of nature, like a volcano. When Mt. Vesuvius erupts and kills thousands of people, the world says, “What did you expect, living next to a volcano???” And that makes some sense, because active volcanoes will do that – erupt and destroy everything in their vicinity – and they don’t care, because they’re not sentient beings. But a rapist is not a volcano. A rapist is simply a person who chooses to rape. So for every girl who gets piss-drunk at a frat party and gets raped, there is a guy who chooses to rape her. That scenario could easily be left at "girl gets piss-drunk at a frat party, passes out, is left alone, wakes up unmolested, and goes home safely. When it doesn’t go that way, it’s because someone else made the decision to hurt her. It’s that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/19 "2014-11-25T13:20:47Z")
> [@gallows\_fodder](#): > > So apparently this needs to be said: a rapist is not an unavoidable force of nature, like a volcano. When Mt. Vesuvius erupts and kills thousands of people, the world says, “What did you expect, living next to a volcano???” And that makes some sense, because active volcanoes will do that – erupt and destroy everything in their vicinity – and they don’t care, because they’re not sentient beings. > > But a rapist is not a volcano. A rapist is simply a person who chooses to rape. So for every girl who gets piss-drunk at a frat party and gets raped, there is a guy who chooses to rape her. That scenario could easily be left at "girl gets piss-drunk at a frat party, passes out, is left alone, wakes up unmolested, and goes home safely. When it doesn’t go that way, it’s because someone else made the decision to hurt her. > > **It’s that simple**. Except the multiple cases that are _not_ that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/20 "2014-11-25T14:01:45Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > It happens at all campuses, and, sadly, our young women are putting themselves in these dangerous situations (i.e. piss-drunk at a frat party at 2am). > > It is incumbent that we properly punish those who rape and that we raise awareness of the situations and poor decision-making that lead to so many of these tragic situations. > > No, I’m not blaming the victim. I’m blaming our let’s-have-the-media-raise-our-children-for-us mentality that turns a blind eye to the sexualization (see: derogation) of women and their bodies. For a prime example, [look at JLo’s new hit single with Iggy Azalea](http://youtu.be/nxtIRArhVD4). Millions of young women look up these pop stars as role models. Then they go to college, shake their booties, get drunk at frat parties, end up getting raped, and the cycle continues. > > If you want to call this victim-blaming, go right ahead. I know my (someday) daughters will be well aware of what young men to avoid and what situations to avoid. Life can’t always be an MTV music video. You know, you’re right! Why didn’t we think of this? But seriously, you are right. As much as we would like to be part of the party culture, we can’t really go out and get drunk with what we thought were our friends without something like this often happening. I wonder what the case would be, though if men were regularly getting raped (by men) at these parties? Mayhap we would endeavor to change the very idea that college is a good place to get drunk and out of control at these parties? Maybe nobody should be falling down drunk with people they don’t really know and don’t really trust? Maybe the college drinking culture is out of control? Or maybe we would think OH NO! And actually do something about it. I don’t have a magic solution. But just telling women “don’t get drunk” really isn’t enough. We know that already, and women who have never been falling down drunk anywhere have still gotten molested and groped and even raped. It just seems odd that the burden rests on us to not get raped. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515.md?page=2)