# I pit the rape culture at the University of Virginia **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 24, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515 "2014-11-24T20:01:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/101 "2014-12-07T05:07:27Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Wow. Wow what? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/102 "2014-12-07T05:23:40Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Wow what? Wow at what was bolded on the quote. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/103 "2014-12-07T16:35:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It boggles the mind that they did not attempt to contact the alleged rapist to get his side of the story, instead acceding to the accusers request that they not do so. What sort of journalist does that? They did not need to actually interview the alleged rapist. They could have done the straightforward fact checking that other journalists did such as confirming that there was a party on the date in question and the rapist was associated with the frat. Yes, the part about more harsh university treatment of liars than rapists apparently still stands. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/104 "2014-12-07T16:48:05Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > They did not need to actually interview the alleged rapist. They could have done the straightforward fact checking that other journalists did such as confirming that there was a party on the date in question and the rapist was associated with the frat. As I noted in my post, they did need to interview the alleged rapist in order to get his side of the story. Your proposal would only inform them that the woman actually knew a guy by the correct name who was a member of that Fraternity, which isn’t saying much. Since the woman was accusing the guy of something that happened over a year in the past, it’s not unreasonable that she got some of the basic facts wrong. Either way, you need to hear from both sides. That’s not a guarantee of getting the whole story, but it’s the bare minimum. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/105 "2014-12-07T17:00:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As I noted in my post, they did need to interview the alleged rapist in order to get his side of the story. Your proposal would only inform them that the woman actually knew a guy by the correct name who was a member of that Fraternity, which isn’t saying much. Since the woman was accusing the guy of something that happened over a year in the past, it’s not unreasonable that she got some of the basic facts wrong. Either way, you need to hear from both sides. That’s not a guarantee of getting the whole story, but it’s the bare minimum. But Rolling Stone did not even take those simple steps. That’s the point. Assuming the original story was completely true, attempting to get an alleged rapist to agree to an interview would have been a pretty hopeless task. Why would such a person ever agree to a public interview? It might bring actual criminal charges. Of course, it wouldn’t have hurt to ask and get the refusal to talk into the record. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/106 "2014-12-07T17:04:06Z")
The reporter might not have gotten an interview or the guy’s side of the story, but she should have made the attempt(s). We see this on _60 Minutes_ all the time. Instead, it seems the reporter had an agenda to push. Her story is “fake, but accurate” since this _could conceivably occur_ somewhere (like in her mind) and that’s the important message to her. Just look at the Duke Lacrosse case to know how these rich white boys at Southern institutions behave (oh, wait a minute…). ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/107 "2014-12-07T17:32:55Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Assuming the original story was completely true, attempting to get an alleged rapist to agree to an interview would have been a pretty hopeless task. Why would such a person ever agree to a public interview? It might bring actual criminal charges. Of course, it wouldn’t have hurt to ask and get the refusal to talk into the record. Being able to at least say “John Q. Rapist declined to comment” means a lot, and it’s a standard part of due diligence for any reporter leveling these kinds of allegations at anyone. The fact that the author thought that “exposing the rape culture” was more important than at least attempting to get more than one side of the story is telling. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/108 "2014-12-07T17:37:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Being able to at least say “John Q. Rapist declined to comment” means a lot, and it’s a standard part of due diligence for any reporter leveling these kinds of allegations at anyone. The fact that the author thought that “exposing the rape culture” was more important than at least attempting to get more than one side of the story is telling. To my recollection, when it came to the larger issues on campus she did go to all sides. The problem you’re talking about seemed to extend only to the particular incident described at the beginning of the article. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2014, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/109 "2014-12-07T23:11:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It boggles the mind that they did not attempt to contact the alleged rapist to get his side of the story, instead acceding to the accusers request that they not do so. What sort of journalist does that? One who writes for a shitty magazine like Rolling Stone, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/110 "2014-12-08T02:02:41Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > One who writes for a shitty magazine like Rolling Stone, apparently. And who also teaches classes on journalism in college as well.:rolleyes: I think it’s safe to say her careeras as a journalist and a journalism teacher is over. Granted, I’m sure we’ll be seeing a resignation from the RS managing editor who approve of her article and decisions pretty soon as well. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/111 "2014-12-08T02:20:07Z")
I’m seeing headlines now along the lines of “Rolling Stones doesn’t want the basic message to change.” The message being men are violent raping Hitler demons and the sooner they admit it the sooner we can have “an honest conversation” and “let the healing begin.” Nevermind our own honesty has been completely discredited and we have an agenda will do anything to further it. Right. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/112 "2014-12-08T07:04:30Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > But it’s not as though college parties that aren’t hosted by frats are supervised or more likely to be drug/alcohol free. (Who would “supervise” a college party, anyway?) Sure, there were other college parties off campus. But the only parties that you could say were going on at the school besides frat parties were the kinds hosted by the college. We had our little “parties” before midnight in dorms, but nothing with a lot of people, as dorms are tiny. > [@](#): > > When was this? I’ve never heard of a college in modern times having that kind of policy about who can visit (except at maybe a very conservative/religious institution), and I didn’t think you were old enough for the days when that kind of policy was the norm… Arkansas Tech University, 2004ish And it was 12:00, my mistake. Generally speaking, guests were not allowed past that time, but people of the same sex could register. Not that the RAs necessarily came and checked all the time. You more likely to get caught leaving than anything. I remember I was cuddling with this girl in her dorm room, and when that clock hit 11:59, she sat straight up and escorted me off the floor. Before that, I was worried I’d have to stay until they opened up again, or at least until I was sure her RAs were asleep and there was no one on duty at the front desk. I have been starting to wonder if we were atypical, since I see girls and boys rooms mixed on some TV shows. Our dorms were always one sex per floor. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/113 "2014-12-08T12:14:28Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Yes, the part about more harsh university treatment of liars than rapists apparently still stands. Right, which is something the institutions have to deal with as has been discussed before, and that should be addressed regardless of the presence or absence of a “poster victim”. Maybe some good will come out of this in the sense of some institutions and organizations deciding to act anyway to make things safer and better regulate discipline to spare themselves being the scene of the next real incidental one. But then someone comes up with a mess like this in which what’s supposed to be an “exemplary case” of that problem, which then turns out badly reported and has holes shot in it and _IT_ becomes the story. Journalistic diligence is not about playing the nitpicking Skeptics’ Club but about making sure that there are no problems with what’s reported and how it’s reported, that will end up further hurting the persons affected and detracting from the perceived legitimacy of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/114 "2014-12-08T13:59:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Being able to at least say “John Q. Rapist declined to comment” means a lot, and it’s a standard part of due diligence for any reporter leveling these kinds of allegations at anyone. The fact that the author thought that “exposing the rape culture” was more important than at least attempting to get more than one side of the story is telling. At the very least if she had attempted to contact him she would have found out that no one of that name was a member of that frat. > [@Frylock](#): > > Wow at what was bolded on the quote. Since you don’t feel like expanding I will just assume it was a ringing endorsement of what was written. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/115 "2014-12-08T14:06:27Z")
“Wow” literally means “That’s amazing.” So looking at what is bolded, the “wow” post is saying: “That’s amazing that [the journal] instead … acceded to the accusers’ request that [the journal] not [contact the accused].” Does this help? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/116 "2014-12-08T14:37:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It boggles the mind that they did not attempt to contact the alleged rapist to get his side of the story, instead acceding to the accusers request that they not do so. What sort of journalist does that? The sort of journalist who believes that [ol] [li]False accusations of rape are vanishingly rare,[/li][li]Additional verification can be based on the story “ringing true” and the victim seeming traumatized and believable, and[/li][li]The possibility of additional danger and/or trauma to the victim trumps the concerns of likely-guilty accused rapists[/li][/ol] None of these are particularly uncommon attitudes, AFAICT. So my mind, at least, is not boggled. Another interesting thing about this is that many people are now commenting that the story should have mentioned an attempt to contact the accused. But the fact that the story didn’t mention any such attempt was obvious to anyone who read the story, even before the retraction. So why didn’t all these people comment about it upfront? I think many people share the attitudes mentioned which led to this story and found the methodology unremarkable, and are doing a mental pivot now that the story turned out to be very shaky. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/117 "2014-12-08T16:13:29Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > “Wow” literally means “That’s amazing.” > > So looking at what is bolded, the “wow” post is saying: > > “That’s amazing that [the journal] instead … acceded to the accusers’ request that [the journal] not [contact the accused].” > > Does this help? Not really. It’s not that big a deal if you don’t want to give your opinion. But it only shows that you found something notable, not what you thought about the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/118 "2014-12-08T18:01:23Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Not really. It’s not that big a deal if you don’t want to give your opinion. But it only shows that you found something notable, not what you thought about the subject. I wasn’t the person who said “wow,” I’m just explaining what they meant by it. It appears you’ve accurately understood their intention–to “show that” they “found something notable”, so I’m not sure what else you’re asking for here. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/119 "2014-12-08T19:11:18Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I wasn’t the person who said “wow,” I’m just explaining what they meant by it. > > It appears you’ve accurately understood their intention–to “show that” they “found something notable”, so I’m not sure what else you’re asking for here. Sorry. You are absolutely right it wasn’t you. I blame the page break. What I am getting at is highlighting that phrase can be taken in many ways, some of which are exactly opposite from each other. I was just wondering if he wanted to expand. Certainly not necessary if he doesn’t want to. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515/120 "2014-12-08T22:19:04Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Sorry. You are absolutely right it wasn’t you. I blame the page break. > > What I am getting at is highlighting that phrase can be taken in many ways, some of which are exactly opposite from each other. I was just wondering if he wanted to expand. Certainly not necessary if he doesn’t want to. Yeah, I couldn’t tell if he meant, ‘‘Wow, I agree that’s outrageous,’’ or ‘‘Wow, the fact that you think that’s outrageous is outrageous.’’ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-rape-culture-at-the-university-of-virginia/705515.md?page=7)