If rape “just happens” at frat/campus parties as a matter of course, then it sounds like you’re of the same mind as the people calling for the end of fraternities. You just disagree with the solution. But if these places are inherently unsafe for women, to the point where rape is a risk, we need to do better than “just don’t go there.”
Y’know, “rape culture” implies something, I dunno, operatic . . . and there is a lot of rape in opera, come to think of it . . .
Certainly a better source than Faux or Britefart.
Sexualization = derogation?
Story has made the network news last evening and the NY Times today.
The uncut Eramo videointerview by WUVA.
Zero expulsions for sexual assault, even when rape was confessed. But dozens of expulsions for cheating and stealing since 2007.
What are you talking about? Until there is a conviction this is a criminal allegation by one student of another. What secret ability does a Dean possess to access guilt that our court of law doesn’t? And if he/she does have this ability why don’t we just scrap our judicial system?
The purpose of the judicial system is to bring people before the law and punish them according to the law.
The purpose of the student disciplinary system is to determine whether a student may continue to attend a school.
They have nothing to do with each. other. A school can determine whether a student should be expelled for improper behavior regardless of what a criminal court says.
A criminal court is restricted to determining guilt “beyond a reasonable doubt.” That standard is irrelevant to the student disciplinary system. A school is free to apply a lower standard, such as, “eh, we think he did it.” And it would be perfectly appropriate and valid.
As per the linked video, I stand by my statement.
Yeah, really – if the frat-party environment is such a high risk attractive nuisance it would be necessary to eliminate it. But it’s not just frat parties, it’s a concern in many different social environments that women should not need to have to avoid.
True.
But what happens if the school does its admin thing and says, “Eh, not expel-worthy”?
Well, ya see, quite a number of us males can look at this video, say “er, umm… I’ll be in my bunk” :o yet next day carry on in an appropriate manner, NOT concluding that this is any sort of invitation to assault the women with whom we share workplaces and school environments. Some pop singers want to celebrate their asses? Gives nobody any license to act inappropriately.
They are not being expelled even when they admit the crime.
I had to read this several times because I couldn’t believe my fucking eyes.
Women should be allowed to shake their booties as they wish, and get drunk as they wish. The problem (for rape) is not the booty-shaking or the getting drunk (though getting drunk can be a problem in many ways) – it’s the men who choose to rape. This is a choice some men make, and this choice cannot be blamed on provocative dancing, revealing clothing, or drinking.
I am intrigued by this concept of cases of rape which do not involve a rapist making a decision. It might help to break them down into categories:
[ul]
[li]Cases in which one of the frat boys is possessed by a demon and used as a meat puppet to commit the act.[/li]
[li]Cases in which one of the frat boys is actually an android whose ethical subroutines have been deleted by circumstances beyond its control.[/li]
[li]Cases in which one of the frat boys is suffering a neurological condition that causes him to mistake a passed-out woman for a woman actively soliciting a sexual encounter, a la “The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat”.[/li][/ul]
Have I missed any? Because I think that list, with trivial variations on each theme, pretty well covers it.
Poor UVA. When I was a student they were reverently called the ‘best party school in America’ (I think Playboy did a survey.) You could go there for Easters and pretty much stay piss-drunk for a week, wondering from frat house to frat house, getting laid, throwing up and then starting all over again. Who would have guessed there could be inappropriate sexual activity going on in some of those frat houses? I’m shocked to learn there was gambling Rick’s bar.
So you believe in a consequence free life then. Tell me, what planet does that exist on, because on THIS planet, the sooner you learn not to walk down dark alleys with 100 dollar bills plastered to your forehead, the longer you’re going to live without encountering a “criminal element”. The longer you’re going to live… period.
My point is, women shouldn’t be “allowed” to do anything, as if they were carefully monitored children in a crib. Women (and men) should be held responsible for their actions. Because life WILL. If you want to diminish the threat of sexual assault, then: 1) Don’t go to frat parties where alcohol and drugs may be consumed. 2) If you do go, accept you have a responsibility to drink moderately AND maintain control of your drink, not allowing others to get you refills or handle your cup. 3) Have a “battle buddy / wingman” you stay in visual range of 4) have a safe backup exit strategy/ride home.
The above does not absolve young males of their responsibilities, nor the hosts of their responsibilities to their guests. But each entity in that scenario has a part to play, and yes, that includes women. They are not sheltered doves. They are adult females. Act like it, instead of a small child incapable of higher thought or self-protection.
Rape is a terrible, terrible assault. The thing is, in many cases, like the dark alley scenario, it is AVOIDABLE. Life is not fair, or kind, or forgiving. The sooner every young person understands that, the fewer rapes and murders we will have on campus (or anywhere else).
I am sorry this young person was assaulted. Truly I am. But you know what? She still has her life. Unlike Hannah Graham. Again:
Life is not fair.
Life is not kind.
Life is not forgiving.
Stop teaching women they have a right to expect a consequence free life. Because such a thing doesn’t exist, and you are setting them up for assault or worse by teaching them such complete NONSENSE.
Regards,
-Bouncer-
Nope, but I believe in a rape-free life. Whatever the consequences of booty shaking or getting drunk, rape shouldn’t be one of them.
Agreed. And no action that a woman could possibly take is reasonably responded to by rape.
“Booty shaking” and drinking are not acting like a “small child incapable of higher thought or self-protection”.
I think focusing attention on rapists would be much, much more effective (considering that all women are aware that drinking at frat parties might lead to bad things). In the real world, some young women will make foolish decisions. Most will, probably. That doesn’t justify rape and it doesn’t mean the woman is at fault in any way whatsoever.
Basically, we should live in a society in which drunken-frat/date-rape is as morally and socially unacceptable as forcible baby torture/rape. We should strive to improve our society so that no one will be friends with you if you commit drunk frat-rape or date-rape, no one will defend you, no one will be on your side, etc. We don’t live in such a society – many people think this is just okay, and it’s just part of life; or it might not be okay, but it’s not that big a deal… young men might just rape occasionally. That’s unacceptable to me. Our society can and should be better, and it will be better… such that a sexual assault that is witnessed will be treated just like a baby-rape that is witnessed – as totally beyond the pale and unacceptable as human behavior, and any human who commits such an act is the lowest form of life imaginable.
Ah, fucking UVa. I got my PhD from there about 15 years ago, and shortly after that, requested they remove me from their alumni list. My colleagues are surprised when they found out I went there, as I’ve never mentioned it and never included it in official documents (like my homepage on the departmental website. No deception; I just don’t talk about it).
None of the stuff I hear/see about the culture (academic or social) there surprises me in the least.
Look, the article linked in the OP tells the story of a woman who accepted a frat boy’s invitation to a party at the Phi Kappa Psi house and then, shortly after arriving (and apparently without time to get drunk) was led into a bedroom and raped by seven men, not including her date, who was just watching and urging them on (apparently the seven were pledges and the rape was an initiation ritual – which would imply some such rape happens at that house every year).
Now, shouldn’t a woman be able just to accept an invitation like that, in safety? I mean, even without assuming the risk of date-rape from her actual date, let alone the risk of something like that happening?!
This is why I hate the term “sexual assault,” which has become so broad as to become meaningless. Without going through the entire video, I have no idea if the “sexual assault” these people were confessing to were cases of dancing too grindy or cases of penetrative rape. And I suspect that ever sorting through the video wouldn’t clarify things
Women should never go out of the house. If they do and they get raped, it’s their own fault for being such irresponsible sluts. /sarcasm
Come to think of it, I presume there is not so very much rape in Saudi Arabia . . .