# I pit the short-sighted self serving twits at the New York Times **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359 "2006-06-27T17:01:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2006, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/181 "2006-06-28T16:47:14Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > If you really can’t comprehend that the terror networks have the services of people intimately familiar with world financial systems as well as assistance from states such as Syria and Iran to help them find ways to move their money around, then you are the one who’s being thick. If they have connections with people who are that well placed in the financial system, they already knew every jot and tittle of what was “revealed” in the [I}Times\*. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/182 "2006-06-28T16:49:25Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > The reason your analogy makes no sense is that, unlike the Axis powers’ military codes, terrorists do not control the international banking system. Even if they knew we were monitoring bank transactions, how can they move money through the system differently than they already are? That’s the point I made earlier, to which nobody has made any attempt at responding – either they are simply users of the financial infrastructure (in which case they don’t have the ability to do anything meaningfully different, except to shun banks altogether) or they have people “on the inside” of major financial institutions (in which case they already knew all the “secret” details of how the monitoring works, via various government liaisons with their employers). ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/183 "2006-06-28T18:24:45Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Now, now, it’s not the case that the press cannot, simply by virtue if them being the press, be complicit in treasonous activity. If a traitor leaked secret troop movements to someone in the press and they reported it, I think you would agree that the act was treasonous. But they didn’t, and it wasn’t treason, and you’re full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2006, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/184 "2006-06-28T18:31:45Z")
It’s beginning to sound like the [program was never secret.](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/06/28/terrorist_funds_tracking_no_secret_some_say/?page=1) > [@](#): > > But a search of public records – government documents posted on the Internet, congressional testimony, guidelines for bank examiners, and even an executive order President Bush signed in September 2001 – describe how US authorities have openly sought new tools to track terrorist financing since 2001. That includes getting access to information about terrorist-linked wire transfers and other transactions, including those that travel through SWIFT. > > “There have been public references to SWIFT before,” said Roger Cressey, a senior White House counterterrorism official until 2003. “The White House is overreaching when they say [The New York Times committed] a crime against the war on terror. It has been in the public domain before.” So what’s the big deal? Just election year flogging of one of the right’s favorite whipping boys? To those who say the system is now useless: Why? We know about security cameras in stores, does the fact that shoplifters know they exist mean that they shouldn’t be there any more? To those who say 9/11, 9/11, 9/11: Shut up, shut up, shut up. Being attacked does not grant the attackee perpetual victimhood nor permanent possession of the moral high ground. Give it a rest. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2006, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/185 "2006-06-28T19:11:34Z")
I wish it were possible for all the whiny ass titty babies who are so willing to give up apparently any civil liberty and allow any atrocity in the name of security to move away somewhere. How about Security Blanket Island? The we could let America get back to being the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave. It takes bravery to live in freedom, or more specifically to let others live in freedom. Big swingin’ balls. If you don’t have the sack for it, fuck off. Yeah, that’s right, I’m actually making a love it or leave it argument. Why do you hate American liberties? I think there may be something to the idea, as suggested by **Lemur866** that the administration leaked this one themselves. Not only does it serve the purpose of the administration, but also simply due to the massive sourcing that the NYT apparently did on the story. As noted by [Kevin Drum](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_06/009089.php), they talked to “nearly 20” current or former government officials, and the LA Times talked to “more than a dozen.” Why else would so many officials or former officials talk about a clandestine project? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2006, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/186 "2006-06-28T19:13:42Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > … I think if the program was working…and it was legal…the times should have enjoyed a steaming cup of STFU and let it continue. If the program was working, and it was legal, then it would be a credit to the administration that implemented it. How does it serve the alleged anti-Bush agenda of the New York Times to publish a story about one of his successes? I quoted **Evil One** , but if anyone else wants to take a crack at that question, go ahead. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2006, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/187 "2006-06-28T19:40:43Z")
Update: [Congressional Pubs are now crafting a resolution to condemn the NYT for breaking this story.](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/28/terror/main1759675.shtml) Curiously, the WSJ doesn’t seem to be mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2006, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/188 "2006-06-28T20:14:22Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It’s beginning to sound like the [program was never secret.](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/06/28/terrorist_funds_tracking_no_secret_some_say/?page=1) Marienee mentioned it previously and I posted direct links to the relevant government webpages in post 153 and there are still people sniping at the Times for the “leak” of top secret information that George Bush publicly announced a long time ago. The Bush: I am going to track and disrupt the financial network of terrorism. \<5 years later\> The Times: The president has a program that tracks the financial transactions of suspected terrorists and their allies. The Bush: omigodwtf, those liberals at the Times have put us all in danger. The sheep in a sphincter-hold: The Times is exposing a program that’s trying to stop 3,000 people from blowing up! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2006, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/189 "2006-06-28T20:27:43Z")
Did anyone see The Daily Show last night? I thought they got this issue just about right. If you want to see the segment, go [here](http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/headlines/index.jhtml) and click on the link “A Times to Kill.” I particularly liked: > [@Jon Stewart](#): > > [impersonating President Bush] > > For us to win the war on terror, terrorists have to think we’re incompetent boobs. They can’t think we’re on top of these things. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2006, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/190 "2006-06-28T22:13:45Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Actually, it has been discussed pretty thoroughly in **GD** since the story broke. I did a quick scan of GD and missed it. > [@tomndebb](#): > > The fact that the administration and one of their Congressional lapdogs has made a big deal about going after the NYT while ignoring the fact that the WSJ was not even asked to withhold the story pretty much puts the lie to the idea that the administration’s complaints are serious. It is mere partisan showmanship. What is your source for this information? If it’s something other than Daily Kos and it’s true, then that would completely change my opinion of the Bush administration. To complain about breaking the story is legitimate. To target the Times at the exclusion of others is, as you say, partisan showmanship. One possible explanation is that the administration sees the Times as the organization that broke the story and that when other outlets published it, the genie was out of the bottle. However… If the administration knew the WSJ was sitting on the story and said nothing to them, then that is dishonest partisan bullshit behavior. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/191 "2006-06-28T22:26:15Z")
The initial story in the first link provided by **magellan01** in the **GD** thread mentions that the WSJ had not received a call to suppress. **FinnAgain** has provided a link, just a bit ago, [to a story](http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002728765) in Editor and Publisher in which Tony Snow dodges the issue of why the WSJ has not been pursued in successive White House news conferences on successive days. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/192 "2006-06-29T00:46:35Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > But they didn’t, and it wasn’t treason, and you’re full of shit. Okay toughy, what part of the post you cited makes me full of shit? Please be specific. Also, as this is a debate board, you may want to address the content of my post to you. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/193 "2006-06-29T01:14:24Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > To those who say 9/11, 9/11, 9/11: Shut up, shut up, shut up. Being attacked does not grant the attackee perpetual victimhood nor permanent possession of the moral high ground. Give it a rest. You know, I think an issue should be argued on it’s merits and we shouldn’t trot out something to make it an emotional issue. But WTF?!?!?!? We’re talking about a program that was instigated by the blowing up of 3,000 people on 9/11, with the specific goal of trying to prevent a similar, or worse, disaster from happening. Now, either you don’t want this mentioned because it focuses the discussion on the importance of security. Or maybe you forgot just what happened. In which case: [Here’s a remeinder.](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.nyc-architecture.com/GON/gon001-Twin_Towers_Explode.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.nyc-architecture.com/GON/GON001B.htm&h=360&w=469&sz=25&hl=en&start=53&tbnid=s_K6tYQDyOdGoM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtwin%2Btowers%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN) [And another.](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.solcomhouse.com/wtc2series.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.solcomhouse.com/Worldtradecenter.htm&h=361&w=480&sz=44&hl=en&start=15&tbnid=QxQBdRftyuGcbM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dworld%2Btrade%2Bcenter%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN) [And another.](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.foureyes.com/towers/002_sm.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.foureyes.com/towers/&h=169&w=225&sz=8&hl=en&start=28&tbnid=FNq3niBYmmsadM:&tbnh=76&tbnw=102&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtwin%2Btowers%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN%5B/URL) If you don’t like it, too fucking bad. Go put your head back in the sand. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/194 "2006-06-29T01:22:49Z")
**magellan01** , I sympathise with what you’re trying to say here, but _posting pictures_ of the World Trade Centre? That’s emotional blackmail and totally unneeded to make your point. Shame on you. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/195 "2006-06-29T01:39:20Z")
> [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > **magellan01** , I sympathise with what you’re trying to say here, but _posting pictures_ of the World Trade Centre? That’s emotional blackmail and totally unneeded to make your point. Shame on you. I posted them to make a point. If you don’t like it, too fucking bad to you too. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/196 "2006-06-29T01:41:14Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I posted them to make a point. If you don’t like it, too fucking bad to you too. A point that couldn’t be made without those pictures? I really doubt it, unless your point actually _was_ “clearly these people have genuinely forgotten the events of 9/11”. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/197 "2006-06-29T02:23:33Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I posted them to make a point. If you don’t like it, too fucking bad to you too. Hopefully the point you were trying to make is that you’re a piece of shit asshole, because otherwise you missed the mark. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/198 "2006-06-29T02:39:32Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Hopefully the point you were trying to make is that you’re a piece of shit asshole, because otherwise you missed the mark. Ditto, ditto, ditto. What a shit heel. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/199 "2006-06-29T02:46:11Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Okay toughy, what part of the post you cited makes me full of shit? Please be specific. Also, as this is a debate board, you may want to address the content of my post to you. This post… > [@magellan01](#): > > If a traitor leaked secret troop movements to someone in the press and they reported it, I think you would agree that the act was treasonous. THIS part. Nobody was accused of leaking or reporting military strategy or tactics. Nobody was accused of leaking or reporting troop movements. So, like I said, you are full of shit. Nobody told the Germans we broke their enigma code. Don’t argue about what didn’t happen as if it justifies The Great Decider’s latest hisy fit, and act like I’m going to wander off on that tangent. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2006, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359/200 "2006-06-29T03:03:06Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Now, either you don’t want this mentioned because it focuses the discussion on the importance of security. Or maybe you forgot just what happened. In which case: > > [Here’s a remeinder.](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.nyc-architecture.com/GON/gon001-Twin_Towers_Explode.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.nyc-architecture.com/GON/GON001B.htm&h=360&w=469&sz=25&hl=en&start=53&tbnid=s_K6tYQDyOdGoM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtwin%2Btowers%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN) > > [And another.](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.solcomhouse.com/wtc2series.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.solcomhouse.com/Worldtradecenter.htm&h=361&w=480&sz=44&hl=en&start=15&tbnid=QxQBdRftyuGcbM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dworld%2Btrade%2Bcenter%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN) > > [And another.](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.foureyes.com/towers/002_sm.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.foureyes.com/towers/&h=169&w=225&sz=8&hl=en&start=28&tbnid=FNq3niBYmmsadM:&tbnh=76&tbnw=102&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtwin%2Btowers%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN%5B/URL) > > If you don’t like it, too fucking bad. Go put your head back in the sand. You’re a fucking moron. Fuck yourself, you piece of shit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-short-sighted-self-serving-twits-at-the-new-york-times/362359.md?page=11)