# I Pit The Sierra Club **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 16, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894 "2012-10-16T16:02:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/41 "2012-10-16T21:43:40Z")
The Sierra Club that was founded by John Muir should have FIRST on their list Hetch Hetchy. The preservation of wilderness for generations to come was what the Club was started for dammit. They are NOT pro-hunting, and hunters such as myself are not made welcome at meetings (though I am still a member). The premier pro-hunting environmental group is Ducks Unlimited, followed by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. The massive solar plants in the desert have triggered a lot of fights (the desert tortoise issue), along with nuclear plants in general. The Sierra Club DOES work with the residential solar companies though - they are very supportive of them. In my opinion, the Club has allowed itself to get into too many issues instead of focusing on what was once their core. ---
**Author:** ![Cmoore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Cmoore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cmoore)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/42 "2012-10-16T22:20:15Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Funny, one of our resident concerned conservatives is appalled that many environmentalists **are not talking** about controlling the population increase in regards to the damage it causes to the environment (they actually do, but they leave the family planning to the individuals) Yet another made the point that people like the sierra club are not [del]arian[/del] nativist enough for not being against immigration that affects also the environment. > > You are a very odd duck but a little bit original in that you accuse of Nazi behavior to groups that actually had a recent vote and told the more in tune to fascism groups to take a hike. > > [http://www.splcenter.org/greenwash-nativists-environmentalism-and-the-hypocrisy-of-hate/an-early-battle-defending-the-sierra](http://www.splcenter.org/greenwash-nativists-environmentalism-and-the-hypocrisy-of-hate/an-early-battle-defending-the-sierra) I suppose that just goes to show the confluence of the racist right and the eco-left, the difference is that the racist right are open in their contempt for certain groups of people while the eco-left don’t fully undertand the evil inherent in their world view. But the people who founded the modern environmentalist movement definatley do understand. Sure the eco-left leaders employ some left cover for their plans otherwise they would be rejected outright. It’s a sad state of affairs when people seem forced to choose between one or the other or risk being called a “bleeding heart liberal” or a “climate denier”. Personally my ideology is to support economic development worldwide in order to drag bilions of people out of grinding poverty, this clashes irreconcilably with the right wingers AND the modern left that has been hijacked by environmentalist dogma. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/43 "2012-10-16T22:37:26Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Your petulant pro-nuke tirade was pungent, unreasoned ant vomit. You’re supposedly writing a book on the issue and this is the best argument you can muster. Not surprising, really; it’s a lot easier to be ‘writing a book’ than to actually create a manuscript suitable for sending off to publishers. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/44 "2012-10-16T22:43:39Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > The Sierra Club is against hydro energy and solar energy?:dubious: Well, sure. You don’t need hydro, solar, coal OR nuclear power when you’re living off of what you can carry in a backpack. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/45 "2012-10-16T22:45:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The Sierra Club has ultra-liberal cred? I thought they were “protect nature from pollutants so we can kill it with guns instead” types. Oh, hell no! They want to protect the wilderness _from_ you, _for_ themselves. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/46 "2012-10-16T23:41:37Z")
> [@Cmoore](#): > > I suppose that just goes to show the confluence of the racist right and the eco-left, the difference is that the racist right are open in their contempt for certain groups of people while the eco-left don’t fully undertand the evil inherent in their world view. Oh, you mean like the one that exist in right wing land where they are mass murderers? It is indeed the big lie. > **[The Great DDT Hoax | ScienceBlogs](https://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2005/02/17/ddt3)** > > Anti-environmentalist writers frequently claim that after DDT had all but eliminated malaria from Sri Lanka, environmentalist pressure forced Sri Lanka to ban DDT, leading to a resurgence of malaria: > Roger Bate in Politicizing Science:... Incidentally the point was missed when you continue to talk about “confluence”, there is no confluence as the sierra club told the racists to go away. > [@Cmoore](#): > > But the people who founded the modern environmentalist movement definatley do understand. Sure the eco-left leaders employ some left cover for their plans otherwise they would be rejected outright. It’s a sad state of affairs when people seem forced to choose between one or the other or risk being called a “bleeding heart liberal” or a “climate denier”. Personally my ideology is to support economic development worldwide in order to drag bilions of people out of grinding poverty, this clashes irreconcilably with the right wingers AND the modern left that has been hijacked by environmentalist dogma. Sorry, but so far it is clear that you are just a concern troll with the twist that in this case you think your peculiar idea of putting a nazi hat to environmentalists will fly, in reality even conservative scientists know that the climate deniers (that are usually conservatives just because the current leadership they have thinks that it benefits them politically) are really dumb. > **[GOP Not Listening to Its Own Scientists on Climate Change - Inside Climate News](https://insideclimatenews.org/news/22022012/republicans-santorum-romney-gingrich-climate-scientists-scientific-consensus-skeptics-kerry-emanuel/)** > > A number of prominent U.S. climate scientists who identify themselves as Republican say their attempts in recent years to educate the GOP leadership on the scientific evidence of man-made climate change have been futile. Now, many have given up... ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/47 "2012-10-17T01:03:14Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > You’re supposedly writing a book on the issue and this is the best argument you can muster. Not surprising, really; it’s a lot easier to be ‘writing a book’ than to actually create a manuscript suitable for sending off to publishers. You realize this is the Pit, don’t you? That wasn’t an argument, best or otherwise. More pointing and laughing, but things may have cleared up. Anyway, please don’t go. Tell me more about these mysterious “publishers” you speak of. Do you really think if I tried hard enough I might break into the field? Could I actually get _paid_ to write? Is there any chance could end up doing it … _full time_?! My gosh, it sounds like one of those too-good-to-be-true stories. Heck, maybe I could even work from home, with a kid and a pretty wife to do the graphic design and layout! Think there’s any chance? What an idyllic life! ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/48 "2012-10-17T01:11:20Z")
> [@Cmoore](#): > > The real ideological drivers of the environmental movement have always been anti-development, anti-humanism, imperialism and eugenics. > … > > Best thing to do would be to shun the modern environmentalism and support cheap nuclear power without their toxic blessing. Thanks for telling me what I really believe, you cretinous oaf. By the way, the phosphate rock runs out in ten years. When humanity is starving because its staple crops have failed, what will you be eating? Or rather whom? Some of us have seen the future coming. You want to live in a fantasy world. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/49 "2012-10-17T02:32:09Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > The Sierra Club is against hydro energy and solar energy?:dubious: You should look at their position on the hydroelectric dams on the snake river. They say that it interferes with the breeding of salmon. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/50 "2012-10-17T02:37:31Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > This is a slightly different sentiment than what I initially took from the OP. At the risk of getting a mod warning for violating board rules (I’m supposed to not only insist that my first impression was correct, but also that I need to stick with that impression and make all your subsequent comments fit—with ever-increasing vitriol), I’ll agree that it’s possible to have reasoned opposition to nuclear power, that it’s very context-based, and extremism (on either side of the question) is asshattery. . No!:eek: No being reasonable and even slightly in agreement!:eek: I will have to report you, this is clearly against the rules of not only the Pit but of the entire interweb!😃 ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/51 "2012-10-17T02:53:25Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > This is easy to say if you’re already living in the First World. Try telling it to someone in an emerging economy, how they should never be able to get out of crushing poverty because they should use less coal and nuclear is The Devil! Iran is developing nuclear power and either the US or Israel or both is going to declare war on them and blow the shit out them and leave the Iranian environment even more dangerously polluted than it already is. How can any sane person agitate for more nukes for developing countries??? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/52 "2012-10-17T03:40:10Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Iran is developing nuclear power and either the US or Israel or both is going to declare war on them and blow the shit out them and leave the Iranian environment even more dangerously polluted than it already is. > > How can any sane person agitate for more nukes for developing countries??? The United States has the authority and right to limit the technological advances (peaceful or otherwise) of other nations because? I’m not sayin’, I’m just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/53 "2012-10-17T04:01:35Z")
Iran is probably going to be bombed by Israel and/or the USA _because it’s developing nuclear power,_ and its US/Zionist policy that\* Iran can’t have nice things because reasons.\* That aside, in environmental health class we learned a little bit about nuclear power plants. They’re not, “clean and renewable,” so much as, “containable, until the structure physically deteriorates, so for about 25 years barring natural disaster.” Still better than coal, but much much more expensive. And dams are their own brand of problem. Really, a mix of wind power, tidal power, and distributed solar power generation using new nanomaterials is probably the best thing we can do. But we’re going to have to cut consumption. Of course, in about seven years the global genocides will begin in earnest, and that may do something about it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/54 "2012-10-17T04:50:29Z")
Ok, dudes- Iran’s nuke policies are not part of this thread, can you take that to GD? Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/55 "2012-10-17T04:54:22Z")
–nm-- was replying to a PM when I pasted into the wrong window. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/56 "2012-10-17T05:11:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No!:eek: No being reasonable and even slightly in agreement!:eek: I will have to report you, this is clearly against the rules of not only the Pit but of the entire interweb!😃 OK that was fucking funny. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/57 "2012-10-17T05:59:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Ok, dudes- Iran’s nuke policies are not part of this thread, can you take that to GD? Thanks! Can we talk about any countries? Or maybe the US will just build 10,000 nuke plants and pipe the energy around the world? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/58 "2012-10-17T07:16:40Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > You realize this is the Pit, don’t you? That wasn’t an argument, best or otherwise. Oh, I disagree; it is _indeed_ the best argument I’ve heard from the anti-nuclear people in quite some time. At least it doesn’t presuppose that nuclear reactors can explode like bombs. Anyway, yes, I am wasting my time dealing with someone who hasn’t even heard of James Lovelock. ---
**Author:** ![Cmoore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Cmoore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cmoore)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/59 "2012-10-17T09:46:01Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Thanks for telling me what I really believe, you cretinous oaf. > > By the way, the phosphate rock runs out in ten years. When humanity is starving because its staple crops have failed, what will you be eating? Or rather whom? > > Some of us have seen the future coming. You want to live in a fantasy world. You’ve just proved me right. You say that phosphate will run out in ten years, actually at current usage the known supplies alone will last 345 years, obviously a lot more will be found over this time then are used as is always the way. So why bring up this mistruth? It’s not like we can just be nicer to squirrels and phosphate use will decrease. The only way to use less would be to reduce farming and industrial production. Which branch of environmentalism do you subcribe to? Stopping the useless eaters from breeding, throwing billions of people into poverty or out and out genocide right now for the sake of the planet? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894/60 "2012-10-17T14:32:22Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Of course, in about seven years the global genocides will begin in earnest, and that may do something about it. Finally. Some good news. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sierra-club/637894.md?page=4)