# I pit the soon-to-be-named racist lady from Danville, VA (Lowe's delivery story) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 10, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458 "2015-08-10T16:13:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/241 "2015-08-13T19:03:31Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > The reason cited by most of these folks is that they can’t understand what the Indian doctors are saying, and in the case of some of the docs they have a point. But I’ve worked with a lot of docs who are second-generation immigrants, who may look Indian/Asian/whatever but speak perfect English without a hint of an accent, and patients who see me after they see them will often say, “I don’t know what he said. I couldn’t understand a word he said.” Sometimes I can’t figure out what Bobby Jindal is saying either, sounds like a mouthful of grits and gravy. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/242 "2015-08-13T19:32:09Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > You are making a judgement based upon their perceived race. To claim that this is not treating someone differently dependent on their skin colour displays a truly impressive level of denial. I have never screened doctors by race before. But I have for gender. I specifically chose a female psychotherapist. Is that bad? But I can imagine a situation where I might look specifically for a black female doctor. And the reason is simple. I’m a minority everywhere I go. At work. In my neighborhood. Even among friends. I might have a problem one day that is so messed-up that I don’t feel like wasting time bridging cultural gaps. Or having to worry about racial bias and stereotyping. I’ve been pretty fortunate to not need a lot of medical intervention in my life. But if I’m ever in the position where I’ve very vulnerable and need someone to treat me with full empathy and understanding, I’m probably not going to want to take my chances on someone who sees me as an oddity. I don’t want to worry about someone not believing that I’m really in pain, [because my skin color is darker than theirs](http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/05/27/race.empathy/index.html?hpt=C2). I don’t want someone to view me solely as a “black patient”. I don’t want anyone to presume that my race tells them anything about how to treat my condition. Medicine isn’t color blind. I don’t see why I have to put my own comfort on the line by pretending that it is. That said, I’ve never had a black doctor before. All of my doctors have been white–the vast majority male. I’ve had positive experiences and negative experiences. If I’m not in the position to choose my doctor myself, then I’ll gladly take whomever is available. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/243 "2015-08-13T19:59:45Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > You are making a judgement based upon their perceived race. To claim that this is not treating someone differently dependent on their skin colour displays a truly impressive level of denial. Oh, come on. This is more like when you’re standing in line at the post office with your packages and hoping that when it’s your turn you get the cute guy who’s smiling at everyone and not the mean old harridan, but when you actually get to the front of the line it’s not going to matter. The PCP I have now is female, but she may actually be black–I doubt it because odds. In two years I have never seen her so I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/244 "2015-08-13T20:44:31Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Who knows? I doubt she’ll be ordering stuff from that store again, and if she does I bet they send Mr. Bradley to deliver it. In any case you don’t want to make her a martyr. Taking a stand against racism means taking a stand against people who have proven themselves to be hopelessly unapologetic racists. Not unnamed people who may or may not be racist. Furthermore, if I go to their website am I going to see anything about this incident? Did they send any mass emails out highlighting their policy on nondiscrimination? If you go to their store, do they have a sign highlighting this? Have they changed any policies to include a commitment to fair treatment of their staff, or better yet having a policy that explicitly gives the benefit of the doubt to the employee in any situation where there is no concrete evidence of what transpired? If any one of these things are done, I will be the first to applaud Lowes. All Lowes has done thus far is a make good PR move highlighting their “core values,” while not really taking any measures to ruffle any bigot feathers. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/245 "2015-08-13T21:02:17Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I have never screened doctors by race before. But I have for gender. I specifically chose a female psychotherapist. Is that bad? > > But I can imagine a situation where I might look specifically for a black female doctor. And the reason is simple. I’m a minority everywhere I go. At work. In my neighborhood. Even among friends. I might have a problem one day that is so messed-up that I don’t feel like wasting time bridging cultural gaps. Or having to worry about racial bias and stereotyping. > > I’ve been pretty fortunate to not need a lot of medical intervention in my life. But if I’m ever in the position where I’ve very vulnerable and need someone to treat me with full empathy and understanding, I’m probably not going to want to take my chances on someone who sees me as an oddity. I don’t want to worry about someone not believing that I’m really in pain, [because my skin color is darker than theirs](http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/05/27/race.empathy/index.html?hpt=C2). I don’t want someone to view me solely as a “black patient”. I don’t want anyone to presume that my race tells them anything about how to treat my condition. > > Medicine isn’t color blind. I don’t see why I have to put my own comfort on the line by pretending that it is. > > That said, I’ve never had a black doctor before. All of my doctors have been white–the vast majority male. I’ve had positive experiences and negative experiences. If I’m not in the position to choose my doctor myself, then I’ll gladly take whomever is available. **Hilartiy’s** preference for a white doctor for her personal care is one thing. The reason I personally consider her to be a vile racist pig is her unmitigated support for the racists in [this](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/10855575/Racist-couple-demanded-white-doctor.html) article who absolutely refuse to be treated by a black doctor in the British _public_ healthcare system simply because the doctor is black. What is you opinion on that? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/246 "2015-08-13T21:16:54Z")
Choosing anything by the race of the provider is quite an art. Here, go sort this little test and see how accurately you determine the race of a person. [http://www.pbs.org/race/002\_SortingPeople/002\_00-home.htm](http://www.pbs.org/race/002_SortingPeople/002_00-home.htm) I’m willing to bet the vast majority of you fail to get even half correct. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/247 "2015-08-13T21:25:36Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Choosing anything by the race of the provider is quite an art. > > Here, go sort this little test and see how accurately you determine the race of a person. > > [http://www.pbs.org/race/002\_SortingPeople/002\_00-home.htm](http://www.pbs.org/race/002_SortingPeople/002_00-home.htm) > > I’m willing to bet the vast majority of you fail to get even half correct. And this has relevance how? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/248 "2015-08-13T21:31:43Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > And this has relevance how? Would you like to buy a vowel? Choosing a doctor by race. Unless you ask, you’ll likely never know. ---
**Author:** ![Vaevictis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f04885/32.png) [@Vaevictis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vaevictis)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/249 "2015-08-13T21:32:52Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Would this count as the _business_ discriminating, though? The driver wasn’t fired, or paid less, or denied a promotion or benefits. He just drove to address X instead of address Y. Does catering to a bigoted customer, in a way that doesn’t actually disadvantage your employee, count as a form of illegal discrimination? > > As an analogy, imagine you’re a manager at a McDonalds, and a skin head with a swastika tattooed on his throat comes in the front door. Your only cashier working at the time happens to be black. You think, “Tom’s a good guy, I don’t want to see him get hassled by this asshole,” so you tell him to go on break while you man the cash register yourself. Have you broken the law? Yeah but think of it from the manager’s point of view – “I’ve got this guy he’s a good worker but every once and a while due to his skin color I can’t use him. Now on the other hand here’s a guy who is his equal as a worker, but I never have to waste money on him not working due to skin color. Or waste effort scheduling around race conflicts. Whose work makes the company more money?” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/250 "2015-08-13T21:33:39Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Would you like to buy a vowel? > > Choosing a doctor by race. Unless you ask, you’ll likely never know. Good Lord. Go back, read the thread and maybe then you will be able to make a legitimate comment. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/251 "2015-08-13T21:34:27Z")
Are you so absorbed in your tiny point that you can’t see the issue? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/252 "2015-08-13T21:42:02Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Are you so absorbed in your tiny point that you can’t see the issue? Yes, yes I am. Thank you for pointing that out to me. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/253 "2015-08-14T09:12:26Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Fuck me, what is it with reading comprehension these days. Let’s go through that sentence that’s confused you so much: > > “The question is whether the **negatives of that racism** are outweighed by **the positives of whatever cultural goal you’re trying to achieve**.” > > Being considerate to the hard of thinking, I’ve highlighted the bits you’ll want to finger read through. See where it says that racism is negative? With me so far? Then see where it says “the positives of whatever cultural goal you’re trying to achieve”. That means the good thing that you’re hoping to do. > > So no, it’s not talking about good racism. It’s talking about an adult concept called the lesser of two evils. I hope (but rather doubt) this helps you to follow. And what were the negatives of inviting black kids to join the black studies club? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/254 "2015-08-14T11:05:28Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Choosing anything by the race of the provider is quite an art. > > Here, go sort this little test and see how accurately you determine the race of a person. > > [http://www.pbs.org/race/002\_SortingPeople/002\_00-home.htm](http://www.pbs.org/race/002_SortingPeople/002_00-home.htm) > > I’m willing to bet the vast majority of you fail to get even half correct. I’m willing to bet the vast majority can’t make out the sex of those tiny, low resolution pictures. Very poorly executed test. ---
**Author:** ![ailetha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@ailetha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ailetha)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/255 "2015-08-14T12:27:34Z")
After reading her reaction of “I got a right to have whatever I want”, my first thought was she is probably one of those people who constantly calls her kids ungrateful and wonders why they are not thankful for their mother. I mean, wow, wow, wow, what entitlement that you think money entitles your abusive shithead character/attitude to be indulged, “Hey, i’m paying money. i can do whatever i want,” jeez! What a douche! I bet she doesn’t say that at wherever she works as an employee (You paid money here, you can do what you want)! People that entitled are constantly disappointed with their lives and unhappy because they will never get what they so richly deserve in their heads. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/256 "2015-08-14T19:04:06Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > Taking a stand against racism means taking a stand against people who have proven themselves to be hopelessly unapologetic racists. Not unnamed people who may or may not be racist. If you mean the supervisor, he wasn’t fired because he was racist (I don’t think there is evidence that he is) - he was fired for violating company policy and acting in a way which besmirches the company name. If you mean the customer, I think it is pretty clear that she is racist. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, if I go to their website am I going to see anything about this incident? Did they send any mass emails out highlighting their policy on nondiscrimination? If you go to their store, do they have a sign highlighting this? Have they changed any policies to include a commitment to fair treatment of their staff, or better yet having a policy that explicitly gives the benefit of the doubt to the employee in any situation where there is no concrete evidence of what transpired? I suspect they sent out a press release about how they responded to the situation. I’ve seen nothing implying that the press had to pry the news out of them. I bet there is a non-discrimination statement on their website - but since their actions followed it I doubt they’d send out an email. That would be for a company which got caught discriminating in lots of cases (like Denny’s) who might want to make it clear that they don’t any more. I suspect there is a sign somewhere in the store, but Lowe’s is a pretty big store. If someone got fired for screaming at a customer without any reason, would you demand emails and signs about treating customers with respect? Non-discrimination seems to be SOP for them - so as far as the company goes, nothing has changed. > [@](#): > > If any one of these things are done, I will be the first to applaud Lowes. All Lowes has done thus far is a make good PR move highlighting their “core values,” while not really taking any measures to ruffle any bigot feathers. I don’t know if making it clear that they won’t follow bigoted customer requests will ruffle the bigot feathers or not. I applaud them for doing the right thing without being pressured to do so, but am sorry that this is seen as something newsworthy. Benefit of the doubt? People who have worked in retail management have already told you this is a no-brainer. Companies throw people under the bus for worse reasons than this. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/257 "2015-08-14T21:00:34Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Benefit of the doubt? People who have worked in retail management have already told you this is a no-brainer. Companies throw people under the bus for worse reasons than this. Some people who have worked in retail management have said it is a no brainer, and some people have said the issue is more nuanced and complicated - you’re obviously choosing not to read every comment in this thread or have some people on ignore to make a statement like that. I’ve worked in retail management; one of the things that really opened my eyes to the variety of experiences people have in retail is when I was a store manager (very briefly) for a small 3 location retailer. One day a customer came in and was completely hostile and threatening to one of the employees; I threw him out of the store more or less. I did it in a very polite way; I just said we would not be interested in doing business with him if he continued to yell (he was literally yelling) and berate the staff. I thought this was no big deal - a no brainer, why would you want someone like that in your store, _ever_. But the thing that really opened my eyes was when after the man left, the employee just looked at me, with a something astonished look in his eyes and said, “THANK YOU!!” I turns out that he was not expecting me to do that, he had been there for years and had just come to expect to take any sort of abuse the customers gave, period. To make a long story short, I did not stay long there; turns out my ideas about these sort of things were out of line with the general management mentality, so I was not a good fit. This is not to say that all retail is bad or even most; but without further knowledge of the situation, I would withhold judgement of the former employees in question. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/258 "2015-08-14T22:59:11Z")
I took that PBS test, and I am shocked, _SHOCKED!_ by the conclusion: [spoiler]I’m really good at pegging one group, probably because where I live, but the biggest shock was when I clicked **Next** , and Gwen Ifill called me a “Racist Cocksucker!”. :eek: 😃 Seriously, those pictures sucked. [/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/259 "2015-08-14T23:00:24Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > I thought this was no big deal - a no brainer, why would you want someone like that in your store, _ever_. But the thing that really opened my eyes was when after the man left, the employee just looked at me, with a something astonished look in his eyes and said, “THANK YOU!!” I turns out that he was not expecting me to do that, he had been there for years and had just come to expect to take any sort of abuse the customers gave, period. To make a long story short, I did not stay long there; turns out my ideas about these sort of things were out of line with the general management mentality, so I was not a good fit. > > This is not to say that all retail is bad or even most; but without further knowledge of the situation, I would withhold judgement of the former employees in question. You surprised me. I thought you were going to finish the story with your bosses giving you shit for doing the right thing. Which is what a lot of people in this thread who have never been in management have been saying. There have been plenty of other threads. not involving retail, which have people claiming that all managers have nothing better to do with their time than planning ways to screw their reports. They don’t get that it is easier to be successful with a happy productive staff than with an unhappy unproductive one. I’ve never claimed that the guy who got fired (actually several people) was evil. He made a mistake which put the company’s reputation at risk. If you had a choice of firing him, never fun, or keeping him and knowing there was a big chance of getting picketed and your brand associated with racism in social media, what would you have done? ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/260 "2015-08-15T01:36:56Z")
Sorry, I didn’t read everything. Has anyone set up a Gofundme and made this woman a millionaire for heroically sticking to her beliefs yet? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458.md?page=12)