# I pit the soon-to-be-named racist lady from Danville, VA (Lowe's delivery story) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 10, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458 "2015-08-10T16:13:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/61 "2015-08-11T12:56:28Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Would this count as the _business_ discriminating, though? The driver wasn’t fired, or paid less, or denied a promotion or benefits. He just drove to address X instead of address Y. Does catering to a bigoted customer, in a way that doesn’t actually disadvantage your employee, count as a form of illegal discrimination? It wouldn’t require much to turn this into business discrimination. Imagine that word gets out that Lowe’s allows customers to select the race of delivery and repairmen. Suddenly tons of white folk in Danville start demanding white guys. Now Lowe’s is under pressure to hire only white guys. And to make room for them, they let go of the black guys. It’s a slippery slope, sure. But that’s what would happen if we allowed business to discriminate based on the customer’s whim. There is no kumbaya in the so-called free market. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/62 "2015-08-11T13:12:34Z")
_I’m sorry ma’am, but we cannot guarantee which of our delivery drivers will be assigned to a particular route or delivery. If that is unacceptable to you, you are free to pick up your purchase at our store. Do you need directions?"_ Predicted future text in the Lowes training manual for Delivery Dispatchers and Store Managers. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/63 "2015-08-11T14:18:36Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Actually, I would reserve judgment on the manager for a different reason. He was put into a difficult situation, but any halfway decent manager, being aware that a customer is racist, wouldn’t subject anyone that works for him to racism. That’s his job because he’s the manager. Now, I’m not a manager, and I’m sure exactly what was said, but he basically either had to put that employee in a situation to deal with that customer, which I’m glad he didn’t have him do, but the other two options would also get him in hot water, replace him with a white guy–which got him fired–or tell the customer to eat a bag of dicks, which while certainly satisfying, very well could have gotten him into similar trouble, possibly for exceeding his authority in refusing to deliver an item for which the delivery had already been paid, and that customer very likely would have painted the issue to still make him look bad. > > Now, of course, that the manager is also an idiot and deserved to get fired, but as I do think it’s possible he was actually looking out for his employee, even if it didn’t come off that way, I’m loathe to judge him without actually hearing his side of the story. Regardless, we can all agree that the the customer is an unrepentant racist, and I’ve little doubt that having her picture out there associated with this article will probably get her so sort of retribution. I can cut the manager some slack if his employer did not give him proper training on non-discrimination law, but assuming he is aware of it, I can’t cut him slack the way you are. He should have established with he customer that he cannot guarantee a white delivery person, and make sure she will accept the product if delivered by someone who is non-white. If she refuses, fine. If not, then the manager can’t be expected to shield his black employees from every bigoted white person out there. This seems to be a common theme these days-- that every little slight must somehow be avoided. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/64 "2015-08-11T14:34:43Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > _I’m sorry ma’am, but we cannot guarantee which of our delivery drivers will be assigned to a particular route or delivery. If that is unacceptable to you, you are free to pick up your purchase at our store. Do you need directions?"_ > > Predicted future text in the Lowes training manual for Delivery Dispatchers and Store Managers. Yes, that would have been the sensible response, with the caveat that if the manager had reason to suspect that the customer would cause active trouble for either the driver or the store (e.g. threatening him or making a false claim of theft or damage) he might consider sending a second driver to be present for the delivery as a witness. Of course, he shouldn’t _have_ to do that, but it’s a question of what level of risk he’s willing to assume based on his assessment of the customer. Also, I see no benefit in outing this lady, racist bitch though she be. She won’t change, and it will only allow internet dicks to be internet dicks. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/65 "2015-08-11T14:50:16Z")
Poetic justice would be for this woman to appear at the ER and find out that the entire staff was black, and her beloved relative was in dire need of immediate medical care. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/66 "2015-08-11T15:21:47Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I agree, but I wonder what would have happened had he not acquiesced, and the racist complained to the regional manager (RM). I can easily picture the RM doing the all-too-popular “make it go away” and chastising the store manager. It happens far too often. It’s possible the store manager would be in trouble even with the right decision. That’s what I was thinking also. Far to many businesses have take “the customer is always right” bullshit to the extreme. Personally, I think the manager was screwed no matter what he did. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/67 "2015-08-11T15:27:33Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > _I’m sorry ma’am, but we cannot guarantee which of our delivery drivers will be assigned to a particular route or delivery. If that is unacceptable to you, you are free to pick up your purchase at our store. Do you need directions?"_ > > Predicted future text in the Lowes training manual for Delivery Dispatchers and Store Managers. Possibly, but (based on many horrible years in customer service) more probably, a paragraph will be added explaining how if the delivery customer objects to a delivery man of a certain race, the manager is suppose to recall the delivery team WITHOUT mentioning that race is the factor in having them return to the store and then subsequently dispatch a delivery team of the requested race, gender, etc., ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/68 "2015-08-11T15:34:19Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Possibly, but (based on many horrible years in customer service) more probably, a paragraph will be added explaining how if the delivery customer objects to a delivery man of a certain race, the manager is suppose to recall the delivery team WITHOUT mentioning that race is the factor in having them return to the store and then subsequently dispatch a delivery team of the requested race, gender, etc., Including such a paragraph in their official training would probably _massively_ harm Lowe’s bottom line (due to the incredible protests and boycotts that would result), so I think that’s incredibly unlikely. Big companies don’t put racism in their official documents, even if they sometimes do racist things. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/69 "2015-08-11T15:35:52Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Would this count as the _business_ discriminating, though? The driver wasn’t fired, or paid less, or denied a promotion or benefits. He just drove to address X instead of address Y. Does catering to a bigoted customer, in a way that doesn’t actually disadvantage your employee, count as a form of illegal discrimination? From the Cornell Legal Information Institute’s summary on employment discrimination: > [@](#): > > Discriminatory practices include bias in hiring, promotion, **job assignment** … > **[employment discrimination](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/employment_discrimination)** So yes, according to that summary if management starts assigning tasks by race, they may be opening themselves to a discrimination complaint from some of their employees. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/70 "2015-08-11T15:38:42Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Actually, I would reserve judgment on the manager for a different reason. He was put into a difficult situation, but any halfway decent manager, being aware that a customer is racist, wouldn’t subject anyone that works for him to racism. That’s his job because he’s the manager. Now, I’m not a manager, and I’m sure exactly what was said, but he basically either had to put that employee in a situation to deal with that customer, which I’m glad he didn’t have him do, but the other two options would also get him in hot water, replace him with a white guy–which got him fired–or tell the customer to eat a bag of dicks, which while certainly satisfying, very well could have gotten him into similar trouble, possibly for exceeding his authority in refusing to deliver an item for which the delivery had already been paid, and that customer very likely would have painted the issue to still make him look bad. I see what you mean, Lowe’s employees aren’t allowed to be racist but what is he supposed to do when the customer is? That situation probably isn’t in the employee handbook. He chose the path of least resistance, which was completing the sale/delivery by sending another driver. Unfortunately once the media got wind of it corporate had to take action and can him. And the black driver has to know he lives in a town with people that don’t want him in their house because of his skin color, but this probably isn’t the first time he has encountered that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/71 "2015-08-11T15:41:58Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Possibly, but (based on many horrible years in customer service) more probably, a paragraph will be added explaining how if the delivery customer objects to a delivery man of a certain race, the manager is suppose to recall the delivery team WITHOUT mentioning that race is the factor in having them return to the store and then subsequently dispatch a delivery team of the requested race, gender, etc., That paragraph would certainly assist any employees who subsequently sue the employer for racial job assignments. Would never get past the legal department. If I were counsel for the plaintiff-employees and saw that paragraph during discovery, I’d be jumping for joy. “It’s gold, Jerry, gold!” ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/72 "2015-08-11T15:46:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This seems to be a common theme these days-- that every little slight must somehow be avoided. You mean the slight where the black driver was sent somewhere else, didn’t have to work any harder, got paid the same, AND avoided having to deal with a crabby old racists bitch? I also feel sorry for the manager. He was probably in deep doo doo no matter what he did. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/73 "2015-08-11T16:05:58Z")
From Lowe’s website > [@](#): > > How do I cancel my order? > > Upon request, every attempt will be made to cancel your order. Unfortunately, if the order has been processed and the merchandise is in transit the order cannot be cancelled. > > If the merchandise is in transit, > > ``` > You can refuse to accept the delivery and it will be returned to Lowe's for a refund. > You can return the merchandise to your local store. > You can ship the merchandise to the return address. An invoice must be included with the returned merchandise to ensure a refund is properly applied. > > ``` This is retail 101. The customer refuses delivery, it’s returned to the store for a refund. End of story. If the customer wants to order it again, you can deliver it again, with no guarantees of who will or won’t make the delivery. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/74 "2015-08-11T16:12:47Z")
Slight hi-jack hwere. Just last week, it looked like Danville was taking a [step forward.](http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/article_f6553f74-e9eb-55be-ba99-96771e4d084d.html) I guess crazy old white woman was on the losing side of this city council decision. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/75 "2015-08-11T16:16:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I can cut the manager some slack if his employer did not give him proper training on non-discrimination law, but assuming he is aware of it, I can’t cut him slack the way you are. He should have established with he customer that he cannot guarantee a white delivery person, and make sure she will accept the product if delivered by someone who is non-white. If she refuses, fine. If not, then the manager can’t be expected to shield his black employees from every bigoted white person out there. This seems to be a common theme these days-- that every little slight must somehow be avoided. My point is, I don’t really care about protecting the customer, but a manager does have a responsibility to take care of his employees. In this case, the employee did nothing wrong at all. And, yes, perhaps there’s other things he could have done in hindsight, but I also think it’s highly unlikely that any specifics about anti-discrimination law in his training would cover a situation like this. It’s not like the guy was fired or passed up for a promotion. Admittedly, it’s been a long time since I did any customer-facing work, but all the anti-discrimination stuff I got was always about how I need to not be discriminatory, not how to deal with a racist customer. Frankly, I think not sending the guy there to face a racist customer is the right decision, he shouldn’t knowingly be sent into a situation where he’ll face a belligerent customer. If she had requested a female delivery person because she hates men or a non-Muslim because she hates Muslims or a straight delivery person because she hates gays, I also think a manager would have been right not to send a man, Muslim, or gay into that situation too. In my view, it’s his decision to send a white delivery guy, and placate the racist customer, that is in the wrong. Again, not knowing what his motivation was, whether it was to protect his employee or just to shut up the customer, if it’s the former, I have a harder time blaming him. If it’s the latter, then he’s a putz and he deserves it. I’m just loathe to assume his motivation without hearing his side. > [@control-z](#): > > I see what you mean, Lowe’s employees aren’t allowed to be racist but what is he supposed to do when the customer is? That situation probably isn’t in the employee handbook. He chose the path of least resistance, which was completing the sale/delivery by sending another driver. Unfortunately once the media got wind of it corporate had to take action and can him. And the black driver has to know he lives in a town with people that don’t want him in their house because of his skin color, but this probably isn’t the first time he has encountered that sort of thing. And that’s the thing. Again, I’m glad he didn’t send the delivery guy there to face potential verbal abuse, the problem was he took the path of least resistance to satisfy the customer. He probably should have just told her he couldn’t promise that and refunded the delivery charge and let her decide if she wanted a full refund on the item. But that said, even if she had then relented and claimed to be okay with it, I’m still not sure how comfortable I’d have been in his spot sending the delivery guy in. Maybe talk to the employee and let him decide if he’s comfortable or not. And I live in Virginia, Northern Virginia, and though I feel bad for the guy, I don’t think anyone in Southern Virginia is under any illusions that racism isn’t still present. It’s still a shame when it rears it’s ugly head, though. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/76 "2015-08-11T16:30:43Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > You mean the slight where the black driver was sent somewhere else, didn’t have to work any harder, got paid the same, AND avoided having to deal with a crabby old racists bitch? Yes, that’s exactly what I mean. Where the manager _patronizingly_ assumed that the black employee did not know how to deal with old racist bitches. At a minimum, the manager should give the black employee the option: Deal with the racist old bitch or not. Don’t make the decision for him/her. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/77 "2015-08-11T16:40:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yes, that’s exactly what I mean. Where the manager _patronizingly_ assumed that the black employee did not know how to deal with old racist bitches. At a minimum, the manager should give the black employee the option: Deal with the racist old bitch or not. Don’t make the decision for him/her. You think that’s worth FIRING the guy over? I don’t. Because, hey in hindsight, I know I fuck up every now and then. Other people’s mileage may vary. I’m sorry, I’m getting a bit tired of the whole “somebody fucked up and oh noes somebodies feeling were hurt or nothing major bad happened but people got butt hurt anyway and somebody somewhere must be PUNISHED as much as we can punish them” meme of late. People fuck up. Bob, now you see why this was wrong? Yes sir. Don’t do it again. Yes sir. End of story. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/78 "2015-08-11T16:42:23Z")
Damn Store Manager should have known better. He should have sent a Sihk. :eek: You know, brown skin, turban, curved knife, the whole ball of wax. Now THAT would have been fun. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/79 "2015-08-11T16:42:52Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > He was neither Christian nor white, which rules him out as a delivery man… You never heard the last petition in the Lord’s Prayer? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458/80 "2015-08-11T17:27:00Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > You think that’s worth FIRING the guy over? > > I don’t. Because, hey in hindsight, I know I fuck up every now and then. Other people’s mileage may vary. > > I’m sorry, I’m getting a bit tired of the whole “somebody fucked up and oh noes somebodies feeling were hurt or nothing major bad happened but people got butt hurt anyway and somebody somewhere must be PUNISHED as much as we can punish them” meme of late. > > People fuck up. Bob, now you see why this was wrong? Yes sir. Don’t do it again. Yes sir. End of story. Slow down there, partner. You cut one sentence out of my post, which I then responded to, and then seem to think I believe it’s worth firing the guy over. Where did you get that idea from??? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-soon-to-be-named-racist-lady-from-danville-va-lowes-delivery-story/727458.md?page=5)