# I pit the SovCit movement... For a different reason **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 26, 2023, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412 "2023-02-26T22:47:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412/101 "2023-02-28T23:57:40Z")
Oh man, those videos are addictive. I had never really considered what a judge has to deal with when these SovCit crazies are before them. I enjoyed how they handled them either with sarcasm or humor. Mostly. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412/102 "2023-03-01T00:10:45Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I lived in The Springs for a couple years and up here in Weld County, they outRed The Springs every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Has El Paso County ever tried to secede to Wyoming because Colorado is too liberal? Mmmmmm. It’s a tossup. You win on the secession issue, but Colorado Springs wins on the crazy Christian nut job quotient between Focus on the Frickin’ Family, the Mega Churches, and hate based mass shootings. I’d say we both move if it weren’t for other issues. And as I tell my friends, “we’re better than Texas!” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412/103 "2023-03-01T02:44:07Z")
I, too, am addicted to watfching the loons get their comeuppance. What keeps me hooked is the hope that, at long last, at some point, the judge will tell the defense attorney that their client is now subject to a mental hold (or whatever the current terminology is) and then, if found competent, the trial will continue. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412/104 "2023-03-01T03:33:21Z")
I think I saw in one video a sovcit clown pull that stunt. The judge asked if the “agent” were a lawyer and the “agent” stated he was not. Then the judge asked the “agent” his name and actual relationship to the defendant. It went downhill, of course, for the sovcit from that moment on. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412/105 "2023-03-01T03:56:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Yeah, I see that and I think punk, not anarchist, and pretty much always have. At least, no activist anarchists I know use it - they’re all using the black flag or one of the black/ flags. I hate to break it to you, but [Black Flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Flag_(band)) is punk too. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412/106 "2023-03-01T03:59:05Z")
One day as I drove by a cop on a traffic detail on a quiet back street in my semirural area north of Boston, I stopped and asked him if he’d ever encountered a sovcit. The look of disgusted “Oh, jeez” on his face said it all. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412/107 "2023-03-01T05:23:12Z")
Yeah, but their logo isn’t the anarchist black flag. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412/108 "2023-03-01T17:26:47Z")
Can someone PLEASE explain to me what the fuck these idjts think they are trying to do by playing these inane semantic games? Where a crime is not a “crime” if it is _just_ a traffic violation. Where “traveling” and “driving” are somehow 2 completely different things (note they never bother to specify what the key difference is). Why would they then think that a LEO or judge would automatically agree with the implicit meaning of their pet terminology? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412/109 "2023-03-01T17:32:14Z")
> **[Sovereign Citizens Movement](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/sovereign-citizens-movement)** > > Sovereign citizens believe they are not under the jurisdiction of the federal government and consider themselves exempt from U.S. law. They use a variety of conspiracy theories and falsehoods to justify their beliefs and their activities, some of... > **[The Sovereigns: A Dictionary of the Peculiar](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2010/sovereigns-dictionary-peculiar)** > > Adherents of the "sovereign citizens" movement and of sovereign financial scams like "redemption" are known for their bizarre use of language and Byzantine belief system ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412/110 "2023-03-01T17:57:38Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > And as I tell my friends, “we’re better than Texas!” That’s a mighty low bar, one, notably, Florida fails to clear. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412/111 "2023-03-01T18:01:48Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > I hate to break it to you, but [Black Flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Flag_(band)) is punk too. And here I thought it was [bug killer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Flag_(insecticide)). . ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412/112 "2023-03-01T18:07:18Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Can someone PLEASE explain to me what the fuck these idjts Let me just stop you right there. The answer is, “They’re idjts”. They’re the LARPers of Conspiracy Theorists. They don’t just sit in their basements thinking about this, they’re in it for the “real world” thrill of sticking it to the man. They’ve steeped themselves in a culture of other idjts who all claim that “I really did this, man, I tell you it worked!”, who all find great excuses to explain why it didn’t actually work the one time the new idjt tried it. There’s always an excuse, they didn’t do The Magic correctly. “No, you have to sign “Bob of the Family Villa” across the page at a 45 degree angle, everyone knows that!” Look up some examples of their “paperwork” sometimes. It’s the bureaucratic equivalent of those walls covered in pictures all connected by pieces of string. It’s just layers of psuedolegal sounding crap lacquered one on top of the other, “_Surely_ it will work _this_ time!” ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412/113 "2023-03-01T19:19:16Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Where “traveling” and “driving” are somehow 2 completely different things (note they never bother to specify what the key difference is). I know this! (Having watched to many videos…) Driving is done for commerce while traveling is not. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412/114 "2023-03-01T19:27:08Z")
And travelling is a right that can’t be taken, driving is a privilege that can be. If you ask, they will most certainly specify what the difference is. They will go on and on about it. One thing that I will never say about SovCits is that they are unwilling to explain themselves. That their explanations are crap is besides the point. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412/115 "2023-03-01T20:24:27Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > One thing that I will never say about SovCits is that they are unwilling to explain themselves. …except that they never “explain” themselves when that might (in their world, at least) do some good. You know, when they’re actually interacting with the police. Then, it’s just them repeating their stupid mantras, completely oblivious to the fact that the cop either has no idea what they’re talking about, or is just flat out ignoring them. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412/116 "2023-03-01T20:30:04Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > …except that they never “explain” themselves when that might (in their world, at least) do some good. You know, when they’re actually interacting with the police. I’ve never seen a video where a cop is getting into a philosophical debate with a SovCit, because that’s not their job. They’re enforcing the law. If the police would just sit with them and let them explain how the whole process works, with open minds… ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412/117 "2023-03-01T20:30:20Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Then, it’s just them repeating their stupid mantras, completely oblivious to the fact that the cop either has no idea what they’re talking about, or is just flat out ignoring them. Yes, that is their way of “explaining”. I _did_ just say that their explanations are crap. That doesn’t stop them from giving them to you. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412/118 "2023-03-01T21:49:30Z")
Hey, I was saying myself and @Saint_Cad should get out of our deep red pits if there weren’t other issues. Colorado, while a blueish purple state, follows most of “usual” urban vs rural divides for such, although the Springs is again, very very red for it’s population. So while the city is indeed, being damned by faint praise by it’s comparison to Texas, the state as a whole does much better! Of course, when it comes to SovCits… Well, I’ll share this from a few years back > **[Sovereign citizen Bruce Doucette sentenced to 38 years in prison](https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/05/23/sovereign-citizen-bruce-doucette-sentenced-38-years-prison)** > > One of the nation’s most-notorious sovereign citizens, who toured the country teaching antigovernment extremists how to set up bogus “common law” courts, faces 38 years in prison for a long list of crimes committed against public officials. I bring it up, because I want it to be clear, not all of these yahoos are (just) misled yahoos who end up in jail for dodging their civic costs and fees. These people are _dangerous_, although so far, mostly in the sense of paper terrorism and intimidation. Fighting off their suits are other tactics still leaves you at a loss generally, because you’ll never recover costs from them. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412/119 "2023-03-01T22:04:39Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > These people are _dangerous_, although so far, mostly in the sense of paper terrorism and intimidation. > **[Deadly Arkansas Shooting By 'Sovereigns' Jerry and Joe Kane Who Shun U.S. Law](https://abcnews.go.com/WN/deadly-arkansas-shooting-sovereign-citizens-jerry-kane-joseph/story?id=11065285)** > > A routine traffic stop in Arkansas turned into an extraordinarily violent shooting between police and a father-son pair of so-called "Sovereign Citizens" six weeks ago, shedding light on a secretive and dangerous subculture who believe American laws... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-sovcit-movement-for-a-different-reason/980412.md?page=5)