# I pit the statement from the US Embassy in Cairo **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 11, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432 "2012-09-11T21:24:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/161 "2012-09-12T20:55:35Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Can someone tell me if this is the right timeleine? > > 1. WSJ publishes a story about a obscure movie that mocks Muhammad as a womanizer and child molester or something or other; I don’t think this started with a WSJ story. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/162 "2012-09-12T21:10:04Z")
This is nice to see (people in Benghazi marching to condemn the violence): [[Album] Libya ![](https://i.imgur.com/laHT5.jpeg?fb "Libya") ](https://imgur.com/a/tlCyI) ---
**Author:** ![kwimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@kwimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwimby)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/163 "2012-09-12T21:15:37Z")
Of course the Libyans know who did it, they live there. We haters who’ve become what we hate can only speculate. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/164 "2012-09-12T21:15:54Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > This is nice to see (people in Benghazi marching to condemn the violence): > > [Libya - Album on Imgur](http://imgur.com/a/tlCyI) Thanks **Whack-a-Mole** , yes it is! Maybe **Martin Hyde** will relent and let them live. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/165 "2012-09-12T21:18:12Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > This is nice to see (people in Benghazi marching to condemn the violence): > > [Libya - Album on Imgur](http://imgur.com/a/tlCyI) Extremists! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/166 "2012-09-12T21:20:28Z")
> [@kwimby](#): > > Of course the Libyans know who did it, they live there. Really, so they have psychic cops? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/167 "2012-09-12T21:26:37Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Can someone tell me if this is the right timeleine? > > 1. WSJ publishes a story about a obscure movie that mocks Muhammad as a womanizer and child molester or something or other; > 2. Folks in Egypt and Libya get nnoyed and upset and tensions rise; > 3. US Embassy in Cairo issues a statement essentially saying that the movie does not represent the views of the US in terms of religious freedom; > 4. Not surprisingly, a statement form an embasy officials does little to t quell the tension and some soccer fan ULTRAS attack the embassy…a bit; > 5. Later in Libya a rocket launch attack on the US embassy kills 2. > > So step 3 basically was an attempt to say this movie is an oulier and we kind of think it sucks and we are condemning them for that? No, we are condemning them for referring to the movie as an abuse of free speech, which is totally indefensible. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/168 "2012-09-12T21:32:00Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > No, we are condemning them for referring to the movie as an abuse of free speech, which is totally indefensible. It is? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/169 "2012-09-12T21:36:28Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Rubbish, secularization has massively reduced the power of Christianity in the Western world. Wouldn’t secularization by definition reduce the power of any and all religions? I’m not sure that we should try to achieve it the same way Stalin and Mao did in Russia and China. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Strange how there seems to be so many Islamophobes around and no Christophobes whatsoever. Yeah most of the people on this board are HALLELUJAH shouting holly rollers. Or are yout alking about the global population at large? If its the global population, it might have somethign to do with who is doing all the suicide bombing. > [@msmith537](#): > > Here in the US, our government exists at the pleasure of our people. South korea had a constitution that looked almost excactly like the US constitution during the entire time it was subjected to a military dictatorship that massacred and tortured dissidents. BTW, I just found out about what happened and I would like to point out that there is a "fighting words’ exception to free speech. Not saying that Terry Jones incited to violence but did he really not know that something like this could happen? And WTF is up with Romney criticizing Obama over this? Its a little bit disgusting and I kinda liked Romney (just not the Republican party he would be beholden to) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/170 "2012-09-12T21:39:41Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > No, we are condemning them for referring to the movie as an abuse of free speech, which is totally indefensible. Wait, what’s indefensible about it? It’s not only defensible but commonplace to refer to the inappropriate use of a particular right as “abusing” that right. Nor does it suggest that abusing a right somehow invalidates that right or punitively deprives the abuser of that right. I quote from Frederick Schauer’s _Philosophical Quarterly_ (Jul 1981) article, “Can Rights Be Abused?”: > [@](#): > > Sometimes if someone has exercised a right to _x_ by _x_-ing in a manner disapproved of by a particular observer, that observer may be heard to criticise the agent by saying that he has _abused_ his right to _x_ […] One example is abuse of the right to speak, by lying or offensive language. Seems to me that expressing vituperative religious bigotry is an inappropriate use of the right to free speech. Of course, I’m not trying to argue that such inappropriate uses, or abuses, ought to be censored or denied the general protections of free speech. Neither was the US Embassy in Cairo. So what exactly was the problem with what they said? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/171 "2012-09-12T21:50:37Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Not saying that Terry Jones incited to violence but did he really not know that something like this could happen? It’s abundantly obvious that he doesn’t care. > [@](#): > > And WTF is up with Romney criticizing Obama over this? Well, he thought this would be an easy opportunity to criticize Obama for “apologizing for America,” something the right loves to say about the left. It’s typically a low-impact piece of bullshit: the right loves it, the left hates it, it doesn’t mean anything in particular or sway any votes. But the whole thing went wrong because it turned out several Americans were being killed around the same time, so it became a dipshitty thing to say. Since the whole thing was pandering to the rabid right, Romney decided that he couldn’t afford to apologize, so he repeated the comment a few more times and he looks like an asshole who is trying to blame Obama and a tweet for the murders. It was sort of an assolish criticism in the first place since the “apology” came from the embassy in Cairo before any attacks as they were desperately trying to calm people down (I think it was posted on Twitter by a staffer), and Obama and Clinton repudiated some of the language and denounced the violence when they had a chance to weigh in. So Romney is sticking to the criticism based only on an earlier statement anyway and trying to pretend the whole thing hasn’t gone spectacularly wrong for him. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/172 "2012-09-12T22:08:15Z")
Senator Jon Kyl (Republican of Arizona… but if you didn’t know that you’d be able to guess based on this comment) [compares the statement from the Cairo embassy to a case where a judge told a rape victim she deserved it because of her clothes.](http://www.twitlonger.com/show/j8vjkr) That’s just what the Republican Party needs right now: a way to tie Romney’s clueless remarks about the violence in Libya to all the bizarre comments Republicans have made about rape in the last couple of months. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/173 "2012-09-12T22:33:17Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Seems to me that expressing vituperative religious bigotry is an inappropriate use of the right to free speech. Of course, I’m not trying to argue that such inappropriate uses, or abuses, ought to be censored or denied the general protections of free speech. Neither was the US Embassy in Cairo. > > So what exactly was the problem with what they said? So you agree with the Embassy that the film maker was ‘abusing’ free speech? In what way? (And BTW the White House also had a problem with that Embassy statement and later repudiated it in part.) ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/174 "2012-09-13T00:05:05Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > So you agree with the Embassy that the film maker was ‘abusing’ free speech? In what way? > > (And BTW the White House also had a problem with that Embassy statement and later repudiated it in part.) _creeps into crowded, dark forum_ “FIRE!!!” ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/175 "2012-09-13T00:27:54Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > The overwhelming majority of government in the Middle East are as secular as most European governments. Cite? I’m not claiming this is authoritative, but [this map](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_state_religions.svg) is at least an indication that that might not be true… (if there’s a list of world governments ranked by secularity, I couldn’t find it.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/176 "2012-09-13T00:39:35Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > _creeps into crowded, dark forum_ > “FIRE!!!” And a crowd of Libyan militiamen mistake the exclamation for an order . . . ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/177 "2012-09-13T01:45:04Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > So you agree with the Embassy that the film maker was ‘abusing’ free speech? In what way? I of course cannot speak for **Kimstu**. My opinion is that of course the guy who made the film had every right to do so. Full stop. That said while I fully agree with a person’s right to speak their mind, no matter how foul or retarded it is, most people understand there are reasonable limits. For instance if I go into a predominately black neighborhood in Chicago and start shouting “Niggers!” at the top of my lungs and get my ass kicked as a result will you be defending my right to free speech or be calling me a moron? No question the people kicking my ass are wrong. No matter what hateful shit I spew the answer should not be violence. That said I doubt anyone would be surprised I got my ass kicked if I did that and I doubt I’d garner much sympathy. Just because you _can_ say a thing does not mean you _should_ say a thing. What is worse here is the person spouting the hateful speech has gone into hiding and others died as a result of his speech. This in no way absolves the assholes in Libya who cannot understand the difference between one crank in over 300 million people and taking it out on people wholly innocent of anything to do with what he said. Still, what you say has consequences. Yes, you are free to say whatever you like but that does not obviate the need for watching what you say and realizing the effects of what that speech may bring about. These guys’ deaths are on the movie maker’s head (as well as the Libyans who did it). From what I have seen the movie maker is unrepentant. In my book that makes him a Grade-A asshole (so are the Libyans who staged the attack). Free speech is all well and good but if you spew hateful shit be aware there are consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/178 "2012-09-13T01:58:10Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > . . . For instance if I go into a predominately black neighborhood in Chicago and start shouting “Niggers!” at the top of my lungs and get my ass kicked as a result will you be defending my right to free speech or be calling me a moron? . . . Is there room for both? ETA: actually shouting such things at the top of your lungs could already be covered under “disturbing the peace,” and so I wouldn’t defend it. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/179 "2012-09-13T02:11:15Z")
So we have free speech but we mustn’t be disrespectful to their holy guy in case some crazy Arabs kill someone and if they do it’s our fault? In effect you’re saying that all Americans should obey that part of sharia law which forbids mockery or even depiction of Mohammad. Just in case. With great respect, bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Clarisse\_McClellan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Clarisse\_McClellan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clarisse_McClellan)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432/180 "2012-09-13T02:24:36Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But to deliberately advocate destroying the lives of **MILLIONS** to punish the acts of a few thousand oppressive violent thugs is incomprehensible. It’s like burning down an entire state park because a poisonous spider bit you while you were hiking in it. Especially when you consider what really happened during the attacks on the Embassy in Libya: Secretary of State Cliinton’s remarks on the attack - > **[Celebrities, Music, News, Entertainment, TV Shows & Videos | BET](https://www.bet.com/)** > > BET.com is your home for all the latest celebrity, music, fashion, entertainment and African-American news. Check out your favorite BET shows and watch video! \*This was an attack by a small and savage group – not the people or Government of Libya. \*\*Everywhere Chris and his team went in Libya, in a country scarred by war and tyranny, they were hailed as friends and partners. And when the attack came yesterday, Libyans stood and fought to defend our post. Some were wounded. Libyans carried Chris’ body to the hospital, and they helped rescue and lead other Americans to safety. And last night, when I spoke with the President of Libya, he strongly condemned the violence and pledged every effort to protect our people and pursue those responsible. \*\* \* Still want to bomb the shit out of the whole country, **Martin Hyde?** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-statement-from-the-us-embassy-in-cairo/634432.md?page=10)