# I Pit the Tax "Rebate" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 27, 2008, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146 "2008-01-27T01:35:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/81 "2008-01-28T00:36:40Z")
[QUOTE=newcrasher] Let’s not hijack this thread. Open a new one if you want… [/QUOTE] No. It didn’t bother you when pother people brought up the Christianity angle long before I did. ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/82 "2008-01-28T00:56:28Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Fool, the government isn’t going to give you extra money back, they are going to take it away from others to give it to you. You don’t see a problem with that? And buy your own damn groceries, like the rest of us. [/QUOTE] By others do you mean our grandchildren or the Chinese? Why the hostility against the unfortunate? We have huge, huge problems with the economy in this country, and it’s not because of the selfish poor. What, exactly, do you think makes the US different from Mexico or Haiti? It’s not the presence of rich people, Haiti has plenty of those. It’s how we take care of the middle class and poor. There used to be a social contract to even things out. Now the government has been set up to funnel money upwards, from those with lower income to those with the highest. The idea behind the money is to stimulate the economy, and poor people spend money you give them while rich people do not. Ergo - to get that money into circulation you give it to poor people. Whether or not they “deserve” it isn’t part of the government’s calculation. I have yet to hear an explanation as to why this isn’t like pouring gasoline on a fire. The middle class in this country are tapped out - that’s the problem. Giving them enough to stay afloat for one more month isn’t going to change that. ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/83 "2008-01-28T01:29:18Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Fool, the government isn’t going to give you extra money back, they are going to take it away from others to give it to you. You don’t see a problem with that? And buy your own damn groceries, like the rest of us. [/QUOTE] Who exactly are these others you speak of? I’m a taxpayer. It’s my fucking money I will be getting back. So STFU and get back under your bridge. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/84 "2008-01-28T03:54:03Z")
[QUOTE=Hockey Monkey] Who exactly are these others you speak of? I’m a taxpayer. It’s my fucking money I will be getting back. So STFU and get back under your bridge. [/QUOTE] Another reading impaired poster. Seems to be no shortage of those. If you are a taxpayer, it’s a rebate. The OP was about the non-taxpayers getting so-called “rebates”. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/85 "2008-01-28T03:58:19Z")
[QUOTE=Long Time First Time] Now the government has been set up to funnel money upwards, from those with lower income to those with the highest. [/QUOTE] Cite? Bonus points if you avoid putting the pivotal evidence around “evil greedy corporations” - remember that corporations aren’t people, and only people pay taxes. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/86 "2008-01-28T04:02:40Z")
[QUOTE=Hockey Monkey] Who exactly are these others you speak of? I’m a taxpayer. It’s my fucking money I will be getting back. So STFU and get back under your bridge. [/QUOTE] The whole of your tax bill went to pay for three tenths of a second of the Iraq War. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/87 "2008-01-28T04:04:34Z")
[QUOTE=athelas] Cite? Bonus points if you avoid putting the pivotal evidence around “evil greedy corporations” - remember that corporations aren’t people, and only people pay taxes. [/QUOTE] corporations don’t pay taxes? (spelink) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/88 "2008-01-28T04:15:24Z")
[QUOTE=athelas] Cite? Bonus points if you avoid putting the pivotal evidence around “evil greedy corporations” - remember that corporations aren’t people, and only people pay taxes. [/QUOTE] Wrong. In the eyes of the court, [corporations are indeed persons](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juristic_person#Creation_and_history_of_the_doctrine), and [confer considerable benefits](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_%28business%29) on the principals and stockholders as such: > [@](#): > > Protection of personal assets. Safeguarding personal assets against the claims of creditors and lawsuits. Sole proprietors and general partners in a partnership are personally and jointly responsible for all the liabilities of a business such as loans, accounts payable, and legal judgements. In a corporation, however, stockholders, directors and officers typically are not liable for their company’s debts and obligations. They are limited in liability to the amount they have invested in the corporation (eg: If $100 in stock was purchased, no more than $100 can be lost). Corporations and Limited Liability Companies (LLCs) may also hold personal assets like houses, cars or boats. If one is personally involved in a lawsuit or bankruptcy, these assets may be protected. A creditor of the owner of a corporation or LLC cannot seize the assets of the company; however, they can seize their ownership shares in the corporation, as that is considered a personal asset. Corporations do pay taxes, if their CFO is careless enough to structure their finances to show a profit. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/89 "2008-01-28T04:26:53Z")
[QUOTE=wring] corporations don’t pay taxes? (spelink) [/QUOTE] Who owns the corporations? Mostly everyday ordinary people, that’s who. Your teachers, policemen, bank tellers, nurses, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/90 "2008-01-28T04:28:56Z")
I’m outraged. You’re only giving that much to people for free? I eagerly await the day when such payouts are considerably larger and entirely mandatory. In fact, why stop at paying out tax money? People should be obliged to take those who need it into their homes and give of themselves. How can a government call itself moral when it does not conform to the basest of living guidelines? Fuck the rich. I say that any so-called supreme law of the land that doesn’t demand of people their all is a waste of space and unworthy of it’s citizens. And hey, if people refuse, they shouldn’t be entitled to any of the benefits of being a citizen until they come to their senses. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/91 "2008-01-28T04:30:01Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Who owns the corporations? Mostly everyday ordinary people, that’s who. Your teachers, policemen, bank tellers, nurses, etc. [/QUOTE] Taxes are paid each time income passes from one person to another. Corporations are persons, they pay taxes if they have income that exceeds expenses and dividends. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/92 "2008-01-28T04:34:49Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Who owns the corporations? Mostly everyday ordinary people, that’s who. Your teachers, policemen, bank tellers, nurses, etc. [/QUOTE] and the corporation they (partially or wholy own) pay taxes. so your point is? ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/93 "2008-01-28T04:34:51Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] You recall the expression “bread and circuses”? [/QUOTE] Yup. I’m also familiar with the expressions ‘slave’ and ‘citizen’. Sadly my poor retired folks are taking a bath as the stocks decline. So eeeeevil they are. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/94 "2008-01-28T04:41:37Z")
[QUOTE=kidchameleon] Sadly my poor retired folks are taking a bath as the stocks decline. So eeeeevil they are. [/QUOTE] _Waah!_ The slot machine is coming up lemons! Life is too cruel! ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/95 "2008-01-28T04:42:46Z")
[QUOTE=saoirse] The whole of your tax bill went to pay for three tenths of a second of the Iraq War. [/QUOTE] Oh good, I got my money’s worth. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/96 "2008-01-28T04:44:35Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Taxes are paid each time income passes from one person to another. Corporations are persons, they pay taxes if they have income that exceeds expenses and dividends. [/QUOTE] Really? No kidding? I did not know that. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/97 "2008-01-28T04:50:36Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Really? No kidding? I did not know that. :dubious: [/QUOTE] So why shouldn’t teachers, policemen, bank tellers and nurses be held responsible when they invest in corporations that commit evil acts? If the corporation commits a crime, the stockholders should lose their investment, or part of it. Even little old ladies. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/98 "2008-01-28T04:54:17Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] So why shouldn’t teachers, policemen, bank tellers and nurses be held responsible when they invest in corporations that commit evil acts? If the corporation commits a crime, the stockholders should lose their investment, or part of it. Even little old ladies. [/QUOTE] They will, or not, based on the value of the investment. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/99 "2008-01-28T05:01:13Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Wrong. In the eyes of the court, [corporations are indeed persons](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juristic_person#Creation_and_history_of_the_doctrine), and [confer considerable benefits](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_%28business%29) on the principals and stockholders as such:Corporations do pay taxes, if their CFO is careless enough to structure their finances to show a profit. [/QUOTE] Legally speaking, perhaps, but economically speaking, no. Corporations are owned by investors, and profits (in the long term) accrue to them through appreciation of their shares. People pay all taxes - corporations are merely structures. When governments tax corporations, the corporation is assigned the role of a tax collector, placing the burden of the tax on investors (owners), workers, and customers, many of whom are not rich. People _love_ the corporate income tax because it appears to be paid by rich, faceless corporations. But the burden ultimately falls largely on ordinary people - and economic populists are hellbent on making sure nobody realizes that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146/100 "2008-01-28T05:31:40Z")
[QUOTE=athelas] When governments tax corporations, the corporation is assigned the role of a tax collector, placing the burden of the tax on investors (owners), workers, and customers, many of whom are not rich. [/QUOTE] Oh baloney. I could whine that if it weren’t for corporate taxes, employees would have higher wages, and that would be an equally lame argument. > [@](#): > > People _love_ the corporate income tax because it appears to be paid by rich, faceless corporations. But the burden ultimately falls largely on ordinary people - and economic populists are hellbent on making sure nobody realizes that. So does complying with environmental protection laws, and labor laws, and consumer safety laws. All the little people should realize the stock market is a risky place to put your life savings, and maximizing the return on their investment must share priority with other societal needs. Profit is not the most important goal in life. :eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-tax-rebate/435146.md?page=6)