# I Pit the whole mass-shootings situation **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 27, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369 "2014-05-27T14:37:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/1 "2014-05-27T14:37:17Z")
[This morning there was a shooting close to home for me, in Clearwater Beach.](http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/shooting-reported-at-hyatt-on-clearwater-beach/2181519) At least 2 dead and 8 injured; other details as yet unclear. What I Pit is the fact that I find myself immediately wishing this turns out to be in connection with crime-for-profit, a dispute between drug dealers or something. Because, while it might be all one to the dead, that’s the kind of crime we can all **understand.** As opposed to crazies doing it for reasons only psychiatrists can hope to understand. How did we get to this point?! ---
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/2 "2014-05-27T14:45:25Z")
Lock up all the mentally ill, then only criminals will be out on the streets. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/3 "2014-05-27T14:51:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [This morning there was a shooting close to home for me, in Clearwater Beach.](http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/shooting-reported-at-hyatt-on-clearwater-beach/2181519) At least 2 dead and 8 injured; other details as yet unclear. > > What I Pit is the fact that I find myself immediately wishing this turns out to be in connection with crime-for-profit, a dispute between drug dealers or something. Because, while it might be all one to the dead, that’s the kind of crime we can all **understand.** As opposed to crazies doing it for reasons only psychiatrists can hope to understand. How did we get to this point?! In Bath Township, Michigan, Andrew Kehoe killed his wife, 38 elementary school children and five other adults, and injured at least 58 other people, by means of firebombs and ordinary explosives planted at his farm and the nearby elementary school. He then committed suicide by blowing up his truck while in it. It remains the worst school mass murder in U.S. history. May 18, 1927. Whatever this horrific point is, we didn’t just now arrive at it. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/4 "2014-05-27T15:15:57Z")
Dude, read your own damn link. This was not a “mass shooting” like the Santa Barbara case. It sounds like some sort of escalating argument between groups. It also says “at least two people were shot and eight people were in custody,” NOT “2 dead and 8 injured.” ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/5 "2014-05-27T17:43:48Z")
I would pit him for that horrible TV show. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/6 "2014-05-27T18:48:03Z")
I too am against mass shootings by mentally ill people. ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/7 "2014-05-27T20:07:29Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Dude, read your own damn link. > > This was not a “mass shooting” like the Santa Barbara case. It sounds like some sort of escalating argument between groups. It also says “at least two people were shot and eight people were in custody,” NOT “2 dead and 8 injured.” Ok, so how about [Howard Unruh](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Unruh)- September 6, 1949. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/8 "2014-05-27T20:17:25Z")
> [@splatterpunk](#): > > Ok, so how about [Howard Unruh](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Unruh)- September 6, 1949. I don’t know what you’re trying to prove. I was not denying the existence of mass shootings; I was simply telling the OP to read his own damn link, and get it right, before starting a Recreational Outrage thread. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/9 "2014-05-27T20:18:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What I Pit is the fact that I find myself immediately wishing this turns out to be in connection with crime-for-profit, a dispute between drug dealers or something. Because, while it might be all one to the dead, that’s the kind of crime we can all **understand.** As opposed to crazies doing it for reasons only psychiatrists can hope to understand. How did we get to this point?! It’s a normal reaction. None of us wants to think about the reality that we could be the victim of a random murder. So we want to assign risk factors to murders we hear about so we can mentally distance ourselves from them. We tell ourselves things like “That kind of thing only happens to people who hang out in the drug scene and I don’t do that. So I’m safe.” ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/10 "2014-05-27T20:19:45Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [This morning there was a shooting close to home for me, in Clearwater Beach.](http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/shooting-reported-at-hyatt-on-clearwater-beach/2181519) At least 2 dead and 8 injured; other details as yet unclear. > > What I Pit is the fact that I find myself immediately wishing this turns out to be in connection with crime-for-profit, a dispute between drug dealers or something. Because, while it might be all one to the dead, that’s the kind of crime we can all **understand.** As opposed to crazies doing it for reasons only psychiatrists can hope to understand. How did we get to this point?! So brave. So very very brave. I salute you sir. Only one so full of brave bravery like you could ever stand-up to and pit the injustice of “whole mass-shootings situation”. > [@mhendo](#): > > Dude, read your own damn link. > > This was not a “mass shooting” like the Santa Barbara case. It sounds like some sort of escalating argument between groups. It also says “at least two people were shot and eight people were in custody,” NOT “2 dead and 8 injured.” Hahahahaha, fucking tard. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/11 "2014-05-27T20:21:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > . . . What I Pit is the fact that I find myself immediately wishing this turns out to be in connection with crime-for-profit, a dispute between drug dealers or something. Because, while it might be all one to the dead, that’s the kind of crime we can all **understand.** As opposed to crazies doing it for reasons only psychiatrists can hope to understand. How did we get to this point?! Some agreement; it would be a nicer world if all motivations were sane. But…some disagreement. Insanity is a deep and permanent part of humanity. It’s built in. Much of it comes from the distribution of mind among the various layers of the brain. Who has never lost his temper, shouted at a loved one, done something stupid, or acted against his own best interests? Who has never been “insane” – if only to the degree of throwing the golf clubs into the pond? If insanity could be (magically?) cured, I have a feeling that creativity and emotional gratification would be lost as well. Who would be a Vulcan? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/12 "2014-05-27T20:22:08Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > This was not a “mass shooting” like the Santa Barbara case. It sounds like some sort of escalating argument between groups. Groups of (heretofore) law-abiding citizens exercising their Constitutional rights. Get it straight. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/13 "2014-05-27T21:35:22Z")
When mass shootings are deemed the work of the mentally ill, only the mentally ill will commit mass shootings. Provided they live in a country where the mentally ill can get hold of guns. Elsewhere, rather less so. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/14 "2014-05-27T21:45:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How did we get to this point?! The world has been getting increasingly less violent over the ages. Things used to be much worse. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/15 "2014-05-27T21:52:03Z")
[From a WSJ Op-Ed:](http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303309504579181702252120052) > [@](#): > > Aside from the wealth of qualitative evidence for imitation in massacre killings, there are also some hard numbers. A 1999 study by Dr. Mullen and others in the Archives of Suicide Research suggested that a 10-year outbreak of mass homicides had occurred in clusters rather than randomly. This effect was also found in a 2002 study by a group of German psychiatrists who examined 132 attempted rampage killings world-wide. There is a growing consensus among researchers that, whether or not the perpetrators are fully aware of it, they are following what has become a ready-made, free-floating template for young men to resolve their rage and express their sense of personal grandiosity. > > … > > This approach has been recommended by numerous public health and media organizations world-wide, from the U.K., Australia, Norway and Hong Kong to the U.S., where in 2001 a similar set of reporting guidelines was released jointly by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the National Institute of Mental Health and the surgeon general. It is difficult to say whether these guidelines have helped, since journalists’ adherence to them has been scattered at best, but they might still serve as a basis for changing the reporting of massacres. The highlights (article has rationale for each): > [@](#): > > [ul] > [li]Never publish a shooter’s propaganda.[/li][li]Hide their names and faces.[/li][li]Don’t report on biography or speculate on motive. [/li][li]Minimize specifics and gory details.[/li][li]No photos or videos of the event. [/li][li]Talk about the victims but minimize images of grieving families. [/li][li]Decrease the saturation.[/li][li]Tell a different story.[/li][/ul] (added bullet points) Seems like there is consensus on how to reduce incidents. Think about whether or not the media as a whole attempts to do these things. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/16 "2014-05-27T21:57:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The world has been getting increasingly less violent over the ages. Things used to be much worse. No, they haven’t. It’s the news coverage that’s getting better. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/17 "2014-05-27T22:35:17Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Dude, read your own damn link. > > This was not a “mass shooting” like the Santa Barbara case. It sounds like some sort of escalating argument between groups. It also says “at least two people were shot and eight people were in custody,” NOT “2 dead and 8 injured.” You think the OP is going to return to this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/18 "2014-05-27T23:38:16Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > No, they haven’t. It’s the news coverage that’s getting better. Did you think **John Mace** said violence has risen? Because otherwise I am not seeing the connection in your post. He didn’t say that by the way. The world ( or at least Western society, but arguably the [world](http://www.amazon.com/The-Better-Angels-Our-Nature/dp/0143122010) ) is undoubtedly less violent than in times past, but modern 24 hr media does tend to amplify the considerable violence that is still out there. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/19 "2014-05-27T23:57:04Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Did you think **John Mace** said violence has risen? Because otherwise I am not seeing the connection in your post. My bad…totally skipped over the word “less” in his post. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369/20 "2014-05-28T00:42:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In Bath Township, Michigan, Andrew Kehoe killed his wife, 38 elementary school children and five other adults, and injured at least 58 other people, by means of firebombs and ordinary explosives planted at his farm and the nearby elementary school. He then committed suicide by blowing up his truck while in it. It remains the worst school mass murder in U.S. history. > > May 18, 1927. > > Whatever this horrific point is, we didn’t just now arrive at it. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > The world has been getting increasingly less violent over the ages. Things used to be much worse. I know, I know; but crazy-pointless kill-sprees just seem to be happening more and more lately. Maybe that’s a media-driven illusion, but according to [_Angry White Men_](http://www.amazon.com/Angry-White-Men-American-Masculinity/dp/1568586965) by Michael Kimmel (it’s mostly AWM who do these things, though not exclusively), which researches a lot of post-Columbine stats pretty thoroughly, it might have sociological causes unique to our time. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-whole-mass-shootings-situation/689369.md?page=2)