# I pit the woman who said: "Why do you have a Machine Gun? This isn't Israel!" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 23, 2003, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636 "2003-12-23T13:56:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/21 "2003-12-23T20:25:46Z")
No prob, **Phlosphr**. And you’re certainly right about Spain, come to think of it. The _Guardia Civil_ is not to be messed with, I can assure you. **Rick** : well, what can I say? I never claimed that the machine gun carrying types weren’t there (military police in this case, from your description of the attire and weapons), but they are mostly invisible. Truth be told, the only time I’ve seen them at Schiphol out in the open was the first 3 or 4 months after 9/11. I can only imagine that in your case, something must have happened that called for heightened security (possibly related to the Kosovo struggle). All in all, it’s not all that common to see them, really. And yeah, we _are_ pretty tall. I’m 6’2" myself, and that’s about average around here for men my age. Some of these military types can look mighty imposing indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/22 "2003-12-23T20:51:01Z")
I’ve seen machine gun (or whatever they were) toting police at various airports as well as outside the Old Bailey in the same situation **Crusoe** mentions. It is a disquieting sight, but as long as they’re not pointing them at _you_ there’s nothing to worry about. Mind you, it _is_ a great incentive to make damn sure you do nothing to _make_ them point them at you… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/23 "2003-12-23T21:12:45Z")
I just wanted to say that the first time I ever saw an actual, real-life sub-machinegun was in Heathrow, Summer of 2000. Never saw one in the US until after 2001. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/24 "2003-12-23T21:22:13Z")
Funny thing about this whole thread is that this woman has obviously never been to Israel… What with all the security we have, **very few** of them actually tote guns (much less SMG’s) in the middle of the city. That’s a disaster waiting to happen. Some have handguns; some not even that. It makes sense to me, since the threat being addressed is that of a suicide bomber, not Rambo XIX. The security guard has to be alert to suspicious persons trying to enter public buildings, and their job is to stop this person from entering the building, and to stop this person from pressing that button near their belt… Best way to achieve that is to be light on your feet, and (hopefully) somewhat trained in unarmed combat. Most of the SMG’s I’ve seen outside of reserve duty have been when I travelled abroad… Dani ---
**Author:** ![Akatsukami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea666f/32.png) [@Akatsukami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akatsukami)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/25 "2003-12-23T21:58:56Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Coldfire_ > **God knows we did our fair share of millitant bastardism before _that_.** Aww, we don’t blame the Dutch for Don John of Austria 😉 ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/26 "2003-12-23T23:03:00Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s not exactly true, to be honest. I travel quite a bit around Europe and the US. The only place where visible machine gun-toting characters can be found is the US, in my experience. I’m not saying they’re nowhere to be found in Europe, but most blatant display of weapons I see on this side of the pond is airport security personnel with holstered hand guns. Are you kidding? German airports are crawling with men carrying HK’s! ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/27 "2003-12-23T23:10:07Z")
Beats me. They must zone in on the incoming US flights, or something. 😉 I’ve never seen them except for rare occasions. I’m not disputing your observation, mind you, just offering my POV. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/28 "2003-12-24T00:54:09Z")
I agree with the lady. Machine guns are overkill. We aren’t “at war” domestically. The terror warnings are bullshit. There isn’t any danger. > [@](#): > > Yeah, well, when the fascists actually take over, I’ll worry about the policemen with machine guns The fascists took over in January, 2001. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/29 "2003-12-24T00:56:28Z")
:rolleyes: Whatever you say, **Diogenes**. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/30 "2003-12-24T01:04:54Z")
\ There is danger. There is always danger. “Eternal vigilance” and all that. Whether having heavily armed policeman around will in any way alleviate this situation is another question entirely, and remains to be seen. Nevertheless, I fail to see how Policeman Bob with his standard issue pistol is any more or less of a “fascist” than Policeman Fred with his submachine gun. Same guys, same job, same rules. Either the police are fascist or they aren’t. The tools they use are irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/31 "2003-12-24T01:11:17Z")
The cops aren’t fascist, they’re just cosmetic. The presence of machine guns sneds a subliminal message that there’s some big danger when there isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/32 "2003-12-24T01:20:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*That’s not exactly true, to be honest. I travel quite a bit around Europe and the US. The only place where visible machine gun-toting characters can be found is the US, in my experience. \*\* Since the islamist bombings at the beginning of the 90’s, _soldiers_ (not mere police officers) wielding assault rifles have been, from time to time (depending on the alert level) quite common in major airports, railway stations, etc, … in France. However, their guns weren’t actualy loaded. The ammunitions were kept in a vest pocket and they had to rip it off to get them in order to avoid some unfortunate mistake in the middle of a crowded airport, probably much more likely than an actual terrorist attack (it wasn’t announced, but it wasn’t that big of a secret, either) . So, I assume this soldier’s presence was more intended for the peace of mind of the average passer by rather than to actually deter terrorists. (I’m using the past, because this info dates back to a time when most of these soldiers were draftees. The policy could be different now). ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/33 "2003-12-24T01:49:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*:rolleyes: > > Whatever you say, **Diogenes**. \*\* I’ll second this. They may be “cosmetic” to you, but a trained living, breathing, intelligent person behind that trigger prepositioned spot actually makes me feel better. And regarding this: > [@](#): > > there’s some big danger when there isn’t I’m sure that reverberated through some ears on September 10. Tripler Just my $0.02. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Zero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Saint\_Zero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Zero)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/34 "2003-12-24T01:53:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*The cops aren’t fascist, they’re just cosmetic. The presence of machine guns sneds a subliminal message that there’s some big danger when there isn’t. \*\* I’m not sure your presumption of a lack of threats is valid. I think that we can all just live with the cops toting something a bit more useful in normal situations. After all, don’t the common criminals carry that stuff already? ---
**Author:** ![agiantdwarf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8c91f0/32.png) [@agiantdwarf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agiantdwarf)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/35 "2003-12-24T02:23:11Z")
At first glance, I thought the woman was claiming that Israel is fascist, which is ignorant. Does she mean that the U.S. does not require as much security as Israel? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/36 "2003-12-24T02:38:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*The cops aren’t fascist, they’re just cosmetic. \*\* Well, then I double-dog-dare you to walk up to one and smear cold cream on him. ---
**Author:** ![gleeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f14d63/32.png) [@gleeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gleeb)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/37 "2003-12-24T03:20:40Z")
Give the lady credit for one thing, though. She was right. She _wasn’t_ in Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Akatsukami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea666f/32.png) [@Akatsukami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akatsukami)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/38 "2003-12-24T03:25:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*The fascists took over in January, 2001. \*\* Which is why you’ve been arrested in the middle of the night, sent to a concentration camp, gassed, and cremated. Of course, _that_ means that you’re a figment of our collective imaginations, and we can ignore you. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/39 "2003-12-24T03:39:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Akatsukami \* > \*\*Which is why you’ve been arrested in the middle of the night, sent to a concentration camp, gassed, and cremated. > > Of course, _that_ means that you’re a figment of our collective imaginations, and we can ignore you. \*\* Fortunately for me, only Muslims get sent to Guantanemo. ---
**Author:** ![45\_70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/5f9b8f/32.png) [@45\_70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/45_70)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636/40 "2003-12-24T03:55:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Fortunately for me, only Muslims get sent to Guantanemo. \*\* If it were like you claim I’m sure your favorite leaders to hate could find a Muslim cleric or six to claim you were a member in good standing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-the-woman-who-said-why-do-you-have-a-machine-gun-this-isnt-israel/220636.md?page=3)