# I pit those fighting to ban e-cigs. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 28, 2014, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727 "2014-08-28T05:25:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/1 "2014-08-28T05:25:10Z")
To paraphrase a bit from a letter written in support of keeping them available to adults: These things are potentially the greatest innovation in public health of the last hundred years, capable of saving hundreds of millions of human lives(as of 2008-2010 3 billion people are tobacco smokers) and preventing untold human pain and misery due to smoking related diseases. It even avoids the debated second hand smoke effects, so even non-smokers will benefit. But due to a nonsensical hatred of anything resembling smoking there are those who would like to see this infinitely safer method of consuming nicotine banned, forget the potential benefits to potentially billions don’t you know DRUGS ARE BAD! Think of the children! OMG nicotine is addictive! If someone has to be a dirty addict, they deserve everything that happens to them. If they want to avoid that they they can stop being weak and stop smoking.:smack: It is pure hysterical anti-drug nonsense, and I think if someone really wanted to fight the tobacco industry they would be 100% behind this innovation. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/2 "2014-08-28T05:28:20Z")
I haven’t seen anyone saying we should ban e-cigarettes. Why would they, given that we don’t ban regular cigarettes? So, uh, yeah. Go get 'em! Fight those non-existent bastards! ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/3 "2014-08-28T05:33:57Z")
They’re few and far between, but I’ve seen them in the UK. I wouldn’t worry, though. They’re a small minority. Most people seem to think they’re a pretty good idea. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/4 "2014-08-28T05:41:00Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > I haven’t seen anyone saying we should ban e-cigarettes. Why would they, given that we don’t ban regular cigarettes? > > So, uh, yeah. Go get 'em! Fight those non-existent bastards! They are a minority but they are out there, read any article related to e-cigs and read the comments. From this board: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17679227&postcount=37](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17679227&postcount=37) Several prominent organizations have come out against them. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/5 "2014-08-28T16:42:47Z")
As long as they’re part of a general winding down of smoking, leading to its eventual elimination, I’m for them. They’re a useful part of a strategy for quitting. But if they’re used to “save” smoking – “now we can smoke everywhere!” --I say the heck with that. It might eliminate the issue of secondhand _smoke_, on the technicality that vapor isn’t “smoke,” but it does _not_ eliminate the issue of secondhand _nicotine_, an addictive, poisonous and carcinogenic substance. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/6 "2014-08-28T16:55:43Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > but it does _not_ eliminate the issue of secondhand _nicotine_, an addictive, poisonous and carcinogenic substance. How substantial a concern do you consider second hand nicotine to be? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/7 "2014-08-28T17:09:51Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > I haven’t seen anyone saying we should ban e-cigarettes. Why would they, given that we don’t ban regular cigarettes? > > So, uh, yeah. Go get 'em! Fight those non-existent bastards! It is starting (same as it started for “regular” cigarettes): - [‘Ban E-cigarette use indoors,’ says WHO](http://www.bbc.com/news/health-28937610) - [Chicago bans indoor electronic cigarette smoking](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-01-15/news/chi-chicago-bans-indoor-electronic-cigarette-smoking-20140115_1_e-cigarettes-e-cigarette-regulations-cigarette-sales) - [Toronto City Council votes to ban e-cigarettes from city property](http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/toronto-city-council-votes-to-ban-e-cigarettes-from-city-property-1.1974902) ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/8 "2014-08-28T17:16:09Z")
They are pretty much banned where regular cigarette smoking is banned around these parts. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/9 "2014-08-28T17:16:38Z")
> [@grude](#): > > …due to a nonsensical hatred of anything resembling smoking there are those who would like to see this infinitely safer method of consuming nicotine banned… Is there any evidence that e-cigs are “infinitely safer”? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/10 "2014-08-28T17:24:32Z")
I have no objection to banning them indoors or banning them in places that regular cigarettes are banned, at least until it’s been established that nicotine is not being released into the air. As they become more popular, you could have a roomful of people using them, and there might be a high concentration of nicotine in a room, where people who don’t want to be exposed to a stimulant shouldn’t have to be. If it’s ever established that they don’t release any nicotine into the air, that’s a different thing. I will say, however, that I have already witnessed someone using one in a public place where smoking is banned, and then someone who saw the person using it (and possibly legitimately not knowing what he was looking at) deciding that the “No Smoking” sign must just be a suggestion, and take out a real cigarette, leading to an altercation with a security guard, and the guard then telling the “vaper,” she needed to put away her ecig. Also, I don’t know whether these can lead to fires or not. Can they? if they can, then some kind of regulation is necessary. But I don’t think the implement itself should be banned. Also, RE: 2nd hand smoke. Whether it is generally a problem or not, it is certainly a problem for people with asthma or allergies. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/11 "2014-08-28T17:26:02Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is there any evidence that e-cigs are “infinitely safer”? Of course not, even allowing the OP a pile of self-righteous hyperbole. Fact is, there’s just not much evidence yet to make _any_ health claims about vaping. I think it’s safe to say that it’s _probably_ safer than smoking. Maybe even _overwhelmingly probably_. But I don’t think we can say so for certain yet. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/12 "2014-08-28T18:49:43Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It is starting (same as it started for “regular” cigarettes): > > - [‘Ban E-cigarette use indoors,’ says WHO](http://www.bbc.com/news/health-28937610) > > - [Chicago bans indoor electronic cigarette smoking](http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-01-15/news/chi-chicago-bans-indoor-electronic-cigarette-smoking-20140115_1_e-cigarettes-e-cigarette-regulations-cigarette-sales) > > - [Toronto City Council votes to ban e-cigarettes from city property](http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/toronto-city-council-votes-to-ban-e-cigarettes-from-city-property-1.1974902) What is starting? The blanket ban on e-cigarettes the OP is worried about? How would treating e-cigarettes like regular cigarettes lead to that? The OP is claiming that people are trying to flat-out ban e-cigs, thereby depriving cigarette smokers of a safer alternative. Limiting e-cigs in the same way cigarettes are limited may or may not make sense, but there’s no way to argue that current smokers’ health would be impacted: if they’re not willing to stand outside to smoke their e-cigarette, why would they be willing to stand outside to smoke a regular cigarette? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/13 "2014-08-28T19:05:45Z")
Well, they might be willing to make more sacrifices for a regular cigarette because they’re, you know, actual cigarettes. I smoke and I tried an e-cig for a while and it just wasn’t the same. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/14 "2014-08-28T19:12:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, they might be willing to make more sacrifices for a regular cigarette because they’re, you know, actual cigarettes. I smoke and I tried an e-cig for a while and it just wasn’t the same. Not to mention that being banished to the smoking area when you are trying to move away from smoking really sucks. It puts you back into the world of second hand smoke and smelly clothes that you were trying to leave. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/15 "2014-08-28T19:29:45Z")
Eh, I hate being around smokers, but vaping doesn’t bother me in the slightest. Puff away, locomotive breath. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/16 "2014-08-28T19:38:48Z")
They are already banned on some college campuses, even outdoors. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/17 "2014-08-28T19:39:39Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > …there’s no way to argue that current smokers’ health would be impacted: if they’re not willing to stand outside to smoke their e-cigarette, why would they be willing to stand outside to smoke a regular cigarette? The argument would be that if they’re going to have to go outside anyway, they’ll just go for the tobacco as per usual. Allowing e-cigs indoors adds an additional convenience incentive to switching. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/18 "2014-08-28T19:59:08Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > The argument would be that if they’re going to have to go outside anyway, they’ll just go for the tobacco as per usual. Allowing e-cigs indoors adds an additional convenience incentive to switching. Which would be great if we knew them to be safer than regular cigarettes, but we don’t know that yet. We don’t really know anything much one way or another regarding their safety compared to regular cigarettes. It would be a disaster to encourage people to switch by allowing people to use them indoors, then to discover they cause a really virulent form of throat cancer usually seen only among coal miners with HIV, and people who work with asbestos. My gut feeling, like everyone else’s, is that they’re safer, but a lot of things have had unexpected consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/19 "2014-08-28T20:36:45Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > The argument would be that if they’re going to have to go outside anyway, they’ll just go for the tobacco as per usual. Allowing e-cigs indoors adds an additional convenience incentive to switching. That’s a reasonable argument for having looser restrictions on e-cigs as a way to encourage less tobacco use. The OP is claiming people want to deny smokers the option of e-cigarettes, though, not that people aren’t sufficiently encouraging the switch. The OP seems kind of dumb, though, so maybe we should just ignore him? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/20 "2014-08-28T21:15:51Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Which would be great if we knew them to be safer than regular cigarettes, but we don’t know that yet. We don’t really know anything much one way or another regarding their safety compared to regular cigarettes. > > It would be a disaster to encourage people to switch by allowing people to use them indoors, then to discover they cause a really virulent form of throat cancer usually seen only among coal miners with HIV, and people who work with asbestos. My gut feeling, like everyone else’s, is that they’re safer, but a lot of things have had unexpected consequences. I hear you, but I would say that we know very well the ways in which an e-cigarette is safer than a tobacco cigarette, because we know what materials are in a tobacco cig that aren’t in an e-cig, and we know the risk factors that are associated with those materials. In other words, we know the harms that an e-cig removes. We know too what the two have in common – nicotine – and the effects of that. It is indeed possible that there are as-yet-unidentified harms associated with an e-cig that are greater than those of a regular cig, and that those harms could outweigh the known benefits. To me, though, in light of the magnitude of the known benefits, it behooves those who would restrict e-cigs to suggest what those harms might be, or at least identify some hypothesis by which those harms might occur, before seeking to impose those restrictions. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727.md?page=2)