# I pit those fighting to ban e-cigs. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 28, 2014, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727 "2014-08-28T05:25:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/121 "2014-10-22T04:51:57Z")
> [@dva\_levyx\_yaytsa](#): > > That’s why you gotta admire NRA. They know that giving in even an inch of the ground, on any issue, will lead to further regulations, restrictions and prohibitions, before an inevitable ban. Except, of course, that smoking **isn’t** banned. It’s prohibited in (most) public places, but nobody’s telling you you can’t smoke in circumstances where you can keep your smoke and smell to yourself. Which is only fair. Just because you have a right to smoke if you want to doesn’t mean that you have a right to get it all over everybody else. Describing “keep your smoke to yourself” laws as an outright “ban” on smoking is just melodramatic self-pity on the part of smokers. NRA theatrics about hypothetical “bans” are equally pointless. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/122 "2014-10-22T09:02:29Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Describing “keep your smoke to yourself” laws as an outright “ban” on smoking is just melodramatic self-pity on the part of smokers. So are reductio ad Hitlerum arguments. ---
**Author:** ![dva\_levyx\_yaytsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@dva\_levyx\_yaytsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dva_levyx_yaytsa)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/123 "2014-10-22T10:42:46Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > but nobody’s telling you you can’t smoke in circumstances where you can keep your smoke and smell to yourself. Well, the city of Belmont, [for example](http://archives.smdailyjournal.com/article_preview.php?id=66988) prohibits smoking pretty much anywhere, including your car. The city of San Rafael [for example](http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/25/it-is-now-illegal-to-smoke-in-your-own-h) prohibits smoking (and if I’m reading it correctly) vaping in any multi-house unit. So, say you live in a semi-attached house. And you and your neighbor are just incorrigible vapers (not even “regular” smokers). Well, you’d be both breaking the law if you lighted up inside your own homes. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/124 "2014-10-22T12:10:15Z")
> [@dva\_levyx\_yaytsa](#): > > Well, the city of Belmont, [for example](http://archives.smdailyjournal.com/article_preview.php?id=66988) prohibits smoking pretty much anywhere, including your car. That opinion piece was written before the ban was finalized. Any cite showing it’s illegal to smoke in your car there? It seems the major angst over that law was among smokers living in apartments/attached housing who think they have a complete right to expose neighborhoods to secondhand smoke and other hazards, [as one of the ordinance supporters noted](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/us/27belmont.html?pagewanted=all): “He finally decided he had had enough after a fire broke out in a smoker’s room in the complex in 2003, a blaze that was fed by the tenant’s oxygen tank.” As for vapids, common sense would dictate that you don’t overdo it in your apartment with your vapid buddies and annoy neighbors. But common sense is not a commodity in widespread use among nicotine addicts. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/125 "2014-10-22T12:30:11Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > But common sense is not a commodity in widespread use among nicotine addicts. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/126 "2014-10-22T13:05:14Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > That opinion piece was written before the ban was finalized. Any cite showing it’s illegal to smoke in your car there? > > It seems the major angst over that law was among smokers living in apartments/attached housing who think they have a complete right to expose neighborhoods to secondhand smoke and other hazards, [as one of the ordinance supporters noted](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/us/27belmont.html?pagewanted=all): > > “He finally decided he had had enough after a fire broke out in a smoker’s room in the complex in 2003, a blaze that was fed by the tenant’s oxygen tank.” > > As for vapids, common sense would dictate that you don’t overdo it in your apartment with your vapid buddies and annoy neighbors. But common sense is not a commodity in widespread use among nicotine addicts. Good lord, you’re really showing your ignorance here. Do you really think secondhand vape is going to seep through the walls like secondhand smoke does? Are you really that fucking ignorant on the subject? And stop using “vapid”, that’s our word. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/127 "2014-10-22T15:34:24Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Good lord, you’re really showing your ignorance here. Do you really think secondhand vape is going to seep through the walls like secondhand smoke does? Are you really that fucking ignorant on the subject? > And stop using “vapid”, that’s our word. Maybe the wacky flavors really do have strong smells, but I have already posted in this thread that vapor has almost no smell even to rapid cig haters. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/128 "2014-10-22T15:41:18Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Maybe the wacky flavors really do have strong smells, but I have already posted in this thread that vapor has almost no smell even to rapid cig haters. Vapid cig haters? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/129 "2014-10-22T22:41:28Z")
I think that was supposed to be “rabid cig haters.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/130 "2014-10-23T00:14:18Z")
> [@EmilyG](#): > > I think that was supposed to be “rabid cig haters.” I think “rapid” is rather explanatory. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/131 "2014-10-23T15:06:22Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Now you’re just making shit up. Should we really make policy based on such hair brained theories? How about we lean towards the science instead of these wild speculations? > [@Shakes](#): > > Common sense. Having done both I’ve noticed that the vape dissipates much quicker than smoke. Every vaper on the entire planet agrees with this. (Along with anybody who has a basic understanding of physics) AHA! The science of common sense and the “everybody on the planet agrees” argument! Along with the “anybody with a basic understanding of physics” shin-kicker! Come on, you’ve been here long enough, if you demand science you also must present actual science. I have no dog in this fight but as a former long-time smoker (25 years), I don’t have a problem with e-cigs, although, I do believe we should be attempting to curb nicotine addiction. Any addictive substance that can be sold legally for massive profits for tobacco, Big Pharma, alcohol companies is a slippery slope. While e-cigs definitely have less health hazards than smoking due to their different method of intake, it does not help with getting off nicotine. It’s kinda like if they were to invent a heroin pill, sure there’s less mucky-muck with the needles and such, but it doesn’t help the addict out any. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/132 "2014-10-23T15:33:01Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > AHA! The science of common sense and the “everybody on the planet agrees” argument! Along with the “anybody with a basic understanding of physics” shin-kicker! > > Come on, you’ve been here long enough, if you demand science you also must present actual science. > > I have no dog in this fight but as a former long-time smoker (25 years), I don’t have a problem with e-cigs, although, I do believe we should be attempting to curb nicotine addiction. Any addictive substance that can be sold legally for massive profits for tobacco, Big Pharma, alcohol companies is a slippery slope. > > While e-cigs definitely have less health hazards than smoking due to their different method of intake, it does not help with getting off nicotine. > > It’s kinda like if they were to invent a heroin pill, sure there’s less mucky-muck with the needles and such, but it doesn’t help the addict out any. [Good lord.](http://chemistry.about.com/od/environmentalchemistry/f/What-Is-The-Difference-Between-Steam-And-Smoke.htm) > [@](#): > > Color and odor are two ways to distinguish smoke and steam. Another way to tell smoke and steam apart is by how quickly they dissipate. Water vapor dissipates rapidly, particularly if the relative humidity is low. Smoke hangs in the air, since the ash or other small particles are suspended. Do I also need to provide a cite that proves fire is hot and ice is cold? ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/133 "2014-10-23T16:15:21Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > [Good lord.](http://chemistry.about.com/od/environmentalchemistry/f/What-Is-The-Difference-Between-Steam-And-Smoke.htm) > Do I also need to provide a cite that proves fire is hot and ice is cold? Relax, son. I’m not debating with you, I was just pointing out that statements beginning in “I’ve noticed”, “Everyone agrees” or “anyone who understands basic physics” are not strong foundations for an argument. Besides, anyone who understands basic physics would know that hot and cold are relative terms. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/134 "2014-10-23T19:31:13Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Good lord, you’re really showing your ignorance here. Do you really think secondhand vape is going to seep through the walls like secondhand smoke does? Under some circumstances, yes. Earlier I posted about seeing a group of vapids in action at a local vape shop one night. It looked like a dense London fog in there. Get several vapids going full-bore in an apartment, and it wouldn’t be surprising if the fragrance odor (plus stray nicotine and other interesting chemicals) seep into neighboring apartments. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/135 "2014-10-23T19:37:36Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Earlier I posted about seeing a group of vapids in action at a local vape shop one night. It looked like a dense London fog in there. I wish I knew what kind of devices they were using. 🙂 I’ve seen folks smoking cigars at a tobacco store, but not a group of people using e-cigarettes. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/136 "2014-10-23T19:55:11Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Under some circumstances, yes. > > Earlier I posted about seeing a group of vapids in action at a local vape shop one night. It looked like a dense London fog in there. > Get several vapids going full-bore in an apartment, and it wouldn’t be surprising if the fragrance odor (plus stray nicotine and other interesting chemicals) seep into neighboring apartments. So from years of experience, I know that a cloud of cigarette smoke like that will move out into the street, penetrate into clothing, and seep into the very walls of the building. If there are neighbors, they’ll be affected. I realize that a fog of vapor looks similar…but I’m not convinced that looking like smoke means it acts like smoke. I’m not trying to bag on you, **J-man** , and I agree it wouldn’t be \*surprising \*if it seeped. But I don’t have any evidence that it does, or that any contaminants (in any appreciable amounts) will move into neighboring units. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/137 "2014-10-23T20:17:58Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Now you’re just making shit up. Should we really make policy based on such hair brained theories? How about we lean towards the science instead of these wild speculations? Did you read my post? I said I was making that up. The _whole point_ was that I was making it up. People advocating vaping be treated as having no more effect on others than gum-chewing are making stuff up, so I said, “Here, let me make something up as well,” just to show that my made up stuff was equally plausible. This is why we need research. ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2014, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/138 "2014-10-26T09:47:17Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Under some circumstances, yes. > > Earlier I posted about seeing a group of vapids in action at a local vape shop one night. It looked like a dense London fog in there. > Get several vapids going full-bore in an apartment, and it wouldn’t be surprising if the fragrance odor (plus stray nicotine and other interesting chemicals) seep into neighboring apartments. Oh heavens! Let me share my tale about the time I went into the woods and sat amongst my fellows while wood was burnt. The foul cloud emitted by the fire seemed to follow me no matter how many times I chose a new seat. To this day I can still remember my eyes watering. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727/139 "2014-10-27T00:09:05Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > Sorry. I don’t want to watch vape come out of some douchebags mouth and go into my lungs. Especially when it smells like Ludens cough drops. > > What’s hard to understand about this? When someone farts you’re breathing it in when you smell it. Would you want to watch a cloud of fart come out of someone’s butthole and into your nostrils? You’ll be relieved to hear that farts are next on the activists’ ban list [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-those-fighting-to-ban-e-cigs/696727.md?page=6)