# I pit Trump's pardons **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 10, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660 "2018-07-10T16:03:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/1 "2018-07-10T16:03:22Z")
[This one goes too far, IMO](https://apnews.com/7060f760f76f4608a72359f2ddcc98be/Trump-pardons-ranchers-in-case-that-inspired-2016-occupation). > [@](#): > > Dwight and Steven Hammond were convicted in 2012 of intentionally and maliciously setting fires on public lands. The arson crime carried a minimum prison sentence of five years, but a sympathetic federal judge, on his last day before retirement, decided the penalty was too stiff and gave the father and son much lighter prison terms. > > Prosecutors won an appeal and the Hammonds were resentenced in October 2015 to serve the mandatory minimum. > [@](#): > > In a statement Tuesday, White House press secretary Sarah Sanders called that decision to resentence the Hammonds “unjust.” > > “The Hammonds are devoted family men, respected contributors to their local community, and have widespread support from their neighbors, local law enforcement, and farmers and ranchers across the West,” she said. “Justice is overdue for Dwight and Steven Hammond, both of whom are entirely deserving of these Grants of Executive Clemency.” > > The pardons are the latest in a growing list of clemency actions by Trump, who has been using his pardon power with increasingly frequency in recent months. I’m sure that Charles Manson had the respect and widespread support of his local community, too. So what? Neither of these people deserves this pardon, IMO: they are entitled jackasses who think they can just take what they want and destroy it if they can’t have it. Fuck them. Trump now seems to think that this is the populist move that will endear him to the public: freeing rich people, or freeing people liked by rich people, from prison. > [@](#): > > He has repeatedly referenced emotional video of Johnson being freed from prison and running into her family members’ arms, and has said he’s considering thousands more cases — both famous and not. > > But critics say the president could be ignoring valid claims for clemency as he works outside the typical pardon process, focusing on cases brought to his attention by friends, famous people and conservative media pundits. It’s not like everyone is blind to the implications here: > [@](#): > > Aides say that Trump has been especially drawn to cases in which he believes the prosecution may have been politically motivated — a situation that may remind him of his own position at the center of the ongoing special counsel investigation into Russian election meddling. > > Many have also seen the president as sending a signal with his pardons to former aides and associates caught up in the probe, or lashing out at enemies like former FBI Director James Comey, who oversaw the prosecution of lifestyle guru Martha Stewart, whom Trump has said he is thinking of pardoning. So fuck Donald Trump, too; fuck him right up his stupid ass! ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/2 "2018-07-10T16:13:00Z")
Jesus Christ. We now have FOURTEEN fires in Colorado. I’m smack dab in the middle of this shit. They should get much more than 5 years. This was intentional and malicious arson. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/3 "2018-07-10T16:14:49Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Neither of these people deserves this pardon, IMO: they are entitled jackasses who think they can just take what they want and destroy it if they can’t have it. Fuck them. Agreed. > [@](#): > > So fuck Donald Trump, too; fuck him right up his stupid ass! I’ll leave that to you. 🙂 I’ve no wish to be that near him. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/4 "2018-07-10T16:19:33Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’ll leave that to you. 🙂 I’ve no wish to be that near him. 🙂 No worries; I’ll outsource it to some guys I know who hang out at the Home Depot. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/5 "2018-07-10T16:24:32Z")
They probably don’t want to be near him either. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/6 "2018-07-10T17:39:26Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > They probably don’t want to be near him either. Maybe he meant the ones inside wearing the MAGA hats, benefitting from all the winning the tariffs have brought. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/7 "2018-07-10T18:42:04Z")
The President of the United States of America supports terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/8 "2018-07-10T18:47:42Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > The President of the United States of America supports terrorism. And obstruction of justice/destruction of evidence. Which is what these two yahoos where doing. But of course we already know that about trump. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/9 "2018-07-10T18:49:11Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No worries; I’ll outsource it to some guys I know who hang out at the Home Depot. 😃 [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=857554&highlight=immigration](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=857554&highlight=immigration) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/10 "2018-07-10T21:07:46Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > The President of the United States of America supports terrorism. But only domestic terrorism. Not the bad kind of terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/11 "2018-07-10T22:50:01Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > It’s not like everyone is blind to the implications here This is Donald Trump’s middle finger to the federal criminal justice system. His message is, “I AM the law.” Trump probably feels like getting into bed with white nationalism is his best chance to escape the long arm of justice. Prior to 2016-17, the conventional wisdom - even among Republicans - was that you can’t win with just the white vote. But I get the sense that Donald Trump believes he can - he just needs to give more of them a reason to show up at the polls. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/12 "2018-07-11T21:41:41Z")
This “situation” does a couple of things. Trump gives real law and order a big Fuck You signal. Trump says the law will not punish you if you are “his kind” of people. Trump gives rightwing extremist lunatics, sovereign citizens, and angry rednecks with guns the green light to do whatever they please, with his blessing. It is a clear go-ahead to MORE Bundy types. Trump uses this to distract from his giving public lands away to corporations - to plunder however they please (probably with a nice kickback to him). Trump gets to say “fuck the law, I am the law” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/13 "2018-07-11T22:00:51Z")
These fine, Sovereign Citizens of the Land are finally free of the tyranny of the Federal Government!! Jesus Ef-ing Christ. He couldn’t just commute their damn sentences? He had to pardon _fucking arsonists_??? I’d say I’m surprised, but sadly, I’m not. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/14 "2018-07-11T22:07:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > These fine, Sovereign Citizens of the Land are finally free of the tyranny of the Federal Government!! > > Jesus Ef-ing Christ. He couldn’t just commute their damn sentences? He had to pardon _fucking arsonists_??? I’d say I’m surprised, but sadly, I’m not. He did [commute](https://www.justice.gov/pardon/page/file/1079396/download) the sentences, as far as I can tell. Is there a late-breaking pardon update I’m missing? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/15 "2018-07-11T22:11:46Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > The President of the United States of America supports terrorism. As long as he’s not “palling around” with terrorists then Republicans have zero concern about it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/16 "2018-07-11T22:13:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > He did [commute](https://www.justice.gov/pardon/page/file/1079396/download) the sentences, as far as I can tell. Is there a late-breaking pardon update I’m missing? [Every story I see on this says it’s a pardon.](https://www.npr.org/2018/07/10/627653866/president-trump-pardons-ranchers-dwight-and-steven-hammond-over-arson) ([cite](https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/10/politics/hammonds-trump-pardon/index.html), [cite](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/10/us/politics/trump-pardon-hammond-oregon.html), [cite](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44775113)). Are all these news sources mistaken? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/17 "2018-07-11T22:19:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > [Every story I see on this says it’s a pardon.](https://www.npr.org/2018/07/10/627653866/president-trump-pardons-ranchers-dwight-and-steven-hammond-over-arson) ([cite](https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/10/politics/hammonds-trump-pardon/index.html), [cite](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/10/us/politics/trump-pardon-hammond-oregon.html), [cite](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44775113)). Are all these news sources mistaken? Apparently so. In that first NPR link, despite the headline, their own “list of pardons and commutations” shows it as a commutation. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/18 "2018-07-11T22:23:03Z")
Hmm. Then again, [this](https://www.justice.gov/pardon/page/file/1079376/download) and [this](https://www.justice.gov/pardon/page/file/1079371/download) sure make it look like they’re “full and unconditional pardons.” (PDF links) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/19 "2018-07-11T22:23:06Z")
(omitted) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660/20 "2018-07-11T22:27:19Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > [Every story I see on this says it’s a pardon.](https://www.npr.org/2018/07/10/627653866/president-trump-pardons-ranchers-dwight-and-steven-hammond-over-arson) ([cite](https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/10/politics/hammonds-trump-pardon/index.html), [cite](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/10/us/politics/trump-pardon-hammond-oregon.html), [cite](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44775113)). Are all these news sources mistaken? I wrote a long post explaining that I thought it was likely they were in fact mistaken, based on the clemency-but-not-pardon documents I linked. Then I read **Vinyl** ’s links, and deleted my post, because those sources were apparently not mistaken. I have no clue why the President issued a separate commutation and then a pardon, when the pardon of necessity includes an immediate end to any sentence. But it appears he did. That zany Trump! He certainly is whacky! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-trumps-pardons/817660.md?page=2)