I’m reminded of the delightful James Herriot books, and how he, as a new vet, diagnosed a prize-winning horse not with colic but with bowel torsion. Over the objections of the stable manager, he put the horse down. His boss, Siegfried, stood by his decision and hinted that the manor owner might be a bit upset with the stable manager for letting the horse suffer for so long.
Can vets not call animal control or the humane society if they suspect abuse or neglect, much like doctors are required to call Children’s Services if a toddler comes into the hospital with bruises and cigarette burns all over her body?
Can vets not call animal control or the humane society if they suspect abuse or neglect, much like doctors are required to call Children’s Services if a toddler comes into the hospital with bruises and cigarette burns all over her body?
[/QUOTE]
>>>>
Hi…
There are plenty of times we suspect abuse but not alot we can do to prove it. It’s pretty hard in our area to get anyone for more than not providing food and shelter. It’s not like the SPCA show on Animal Planet here. In one horrible case in particular, a young man brought in a pit bull pup that was mauled by his other dogs. We are not clear if the dog was used for fighting or not (couldn’t prove it anyways) but the poor pup had been mauled at least a week previously. The owner swore it “just happened” but he was nearly septic from infection. The defensive wounds on his body were heartbreaking. We considered calling the authorities but we felt there would be too much danger of retalitation if we did. The man was genuinely upset about it- people can care about an animal and still be idiotic when it comes to getting them help. We talked him into surrendering the dog to us instead, and we documented all of his wounds and euthanized him immediately thereafter. It was a hard choice not to call the authorities- it was a sweet pup and deserved a better chance :(.
I would say we hear weekly that people wait a week or more for things that should have been addressed within a few days. It can get really depressing around the holidays because when people are having out of town company, suddenly their cat or dog that has been losing weight for a MONTH becomes a late afternoon emergency. One vet I used to work with literally screamed at a lady who came in with a neglected, matted, 5 lb cat (according to our records, used to be a 9 lb cat) about 20 minutes before we closed on Christmas Eve.
More recently, we had one of the pet food recall cases and it got alot of media attention. Funny how the person failed to mention in any of the articles that the dog had been not eating for TEN days and not able to walk for the last 3-4 before it was finally brought in.
Those are the horror stories of course, and I agree that the majority of people we see genuinely care about and do right by their pets. We had an elderly lady come in for her annual visit- she’s on social security and has to save up for three months each year to get the vaccines on her cat, which she does on the exact day they are due. We have about a dozen clients like her and we are happy to undercharge or give away services for people in her situation.
My rat terrier developed a severe UTI several months ago and had to have surgery. The bill and follow-up were about $900. I was lamenting the money (which stung a bit but, Big Al be praised, I had it- and most importantly he’s fine now) at work and a co-worker, who has dogs herself, said and was totally serious “Wow! I’d have mine put to sleep or take it to the pound before I’d pay that kind of money.” I couldn’t speak.
I told her that the vet’s office asked me upfront if I had the cash or if I needed to work out a payment plan, so obviously they’re willing to work with you on a payment arrangement if you can’t afford the money, and there are credit cards and the like for this, but she repeated “There’s no way I’d put that kind of money into a dog that was free”. Just floored me. Too many people don’t seem to think of pet ownership as a responsibility.
I’m not going to defend people who ignore the way their pets are suffering, but I’ve been one of those people who took a cat to the vet too late. And I’ve been one of those people who put off euthanasia until too late. I hope I’m learning, but I still make mistakes out of sheer ignorance.
A while back, my 5lb chihuahua was attacked by a neighbor dog (blue heeler). He was in pain and bruised, but overall, none the worse for wear. A few weeks after he had healed, while I was in the act of changing clothes (read: naked) I heard him howling outside (he is only ever let outside on a lead to use the potty). I ran outside to find said blue heeler on my porch, my chi cowering under my son’s Pow-pow-powerwheels jeep (sorry, it just has to be said that way, ya know?). Kicking, screaming and yelling that I was going to kill him, I ran the blue heeler off, only to discover his (teenaged) owner at the foot of my driveway, staring at my insane naked actions. As worried as I was about my chi, I didn’t care that neighbor girl got to see all my naked, saggy glory – and told her the next time he came into my yard, he was dead.
Fast forward a few weeks, I am at work when my husband messages me to tell me that neighbor dog had been killed and the sheriff’s department was at our door checking to see I were the perp. I told my husband to tell the sheriff that if I had been the one to shoot the dog, I would have carried its corpse to the neighbors and let them know that I don’t kid around about shit like that. Come to find out, these uber-responsible, loving, caring pet owners had had enough death threats against their dog by area residents that we were stop # 3 on the sheriff’s route already. Not only that, the dog came home with a bullet in its throat, and lay dying in their yard for 3 days – THREE DAYS – before they finally took it to the vet who put it down.
For the record, the sheriff did say that even if it had been me, there’s nothing they could have done about it – there is a county leash law and I had warned them. Seriously, some people have no business having kids or pets.
Oh, and flame away, if you want – I would have shot the dog had it come in my yard again. This is the country – and I am willing to bet dollars to donuts that dog did not have a current rabies vaccination. I have kids and small pets (barn cats outside in addition to the indoor chi) to protect. I also shoot snakes, possums and any other critter (or human) that I deem dangerous to me and mine.
There are times that financial concerns do make, IMNSHO, euthanizing instead of treating a pet the more logical choice. And I don’t think that’s necessarily wrong - what’s wrong to my mind would be not treating, and then abandoning, or even simply taking the pet home to let it fight things out on its own.
Having said that, the mindset where someone would automatically assume that the cost of a pet were the only investment into the animal is completely foreign to me. There’s feed, licensing, and basic medical costs, too. Even a “free” pet can often put someone out a good $1000 in the first year, alone, just meeting what I’d consider to be the minimum requirements. Hell’s bells, the local animal shelter, which AIUI, doesn’t let any animals out with all the health checks done, and at least an appointment for a subsidized neutering, costs almost $200 to get the animal out the door.
The idea of a “free” pet is something I think of a huge misnomer.
Oh, and flame away, if you want – I would have shot the dog had it come in my yard again. This is the country – and I am willing to bet dollars to donuts that dog did not have a current rabies vaccination. I have kids and small pets (barn cats outside in addition to the indoor chi) to protect. I also shoot snakes, possums and any other critter (or human) that I deem dangerous to me and mine.
[/QUOTE]
You won’t get any flames from me. It’s too bad the dog has to suffer for the owners stupidity and carelessness but I wouldn’t expect anyone to tolerate a public menace. We happen to have an aggressive blue heeler- he’s six or so and he’s NEVER been loose. If he did get loose, and someone shot him- we’d only have ourselves to blame.
That’s one reason why animal welfare organizations recommend that people charge a fee for even nonpedigreed animals. Too many people regard animals as disposable.
People have different definitions of what it means to be responsible. I have a dog. I love him, he gets the best food and day to day care I can provide, along with regular vet care. There is a limit* to what I will spend on him though. There are threads where people have said they’ll go bankrupt for their dogs, which is fine for them but I would not consider doing that.
*Which is basically hypothetical at this point, because the dog hasn’t been sick yet. There is also money set aside for his care.
Quality of life is also a consideration. I’d spend more to prolong his life right now, because he is young and healthy. If he’s sickly and fifteen, things will be different.
Actually, as a large animal veterinarian who also has a foot in the small animal hospital I can tell you that you are not wrong. By and large, the owners of large animals are not as dumb and take better care of their animals than typical small animal owners. Not to say there aren’t some doozy owners out there - but the percent is much much higher among small animal owners.
The worst owners in my practice are the ones who own pot bellied pigs, miniature horses, and alpacas - because they tend to be folks who have not been around livestock before and have no clue about their basic nutritional and husbandry needs (i.e. they’re small animal owners whose pets happen to be large animals). Joe and Jill Suburb (who have always loved animals and want a farm) don’t buy their 5 acre ranchette and then stock it with Angus cattle after all - they run and get miniature donkeys, llamas, and critters of that ilk.
Also, unfortunately, the money is still in small animal practice. Some equine practitioners do very well, but food animal practitioners are some of the most poorly paid despite the relative shortage. Gender isn’t really a big determing factor either. The veterinary students I teach have as many women as men who go into large animal and food animal practice. It’s just a small number compared to the numbers of men and women who go into small animal practice.
As far as I’m concerned, a pet is a member of the family, particularly pets like dogs and cats (and cheetahs and wildebeests). It’s not a human member and shouldn’t be treated like a baby or a pwecious pwecious baby pwincess, but it’s still part of the family. Just disposing of it, or ignoring its needs, is immoral.
When I worked at a vert clinic I was horrified by two owners -
put their dog to sleep because they were going on vacation and it would cost less than boarding it. They said they’ll just “get a new one” when they get home.
Woman that had a great pyrenees bitch that had a litter of four pups, or so she thought. Fifth pup was born in the snow. She brought it in as it wasn’t nursing. MY mom, who was the receptionst heard the vet tell her it would probably need to be hand fed for a while. The woman seemed upset at the idea and asked the pup to be put down. The vet said no, it was a healthy dog, just needed some help. She left. My mom 9after talking to me) called her and said that I would be willing to feed the dog and when it got string enough return it to be sold with the others.
The woman had stopped at another vets on the way home and put the pup down.
Had a case last week that fits with this thread. Owner called after witnessing her 50 pound dog eat a tube sock. It is way unlikely that a dog that size would be able to pass a foreign body that size. We were booked solid, so the owner was offered an emergency. Basically, for an increased fee I would see the dog as soon as they could get in, while other people (who had appointments) waited. She didn’t want to spend the money.
The thing is, at that point making the situation right would have been relatively cheap and easy. Instead, she scheduled an appointment for the next day. When time for that appointment came, the dog was “acting fine” so she called and canceled.
A couple days later, the dog is obstructed, vomiting, and dying. She calls again, this time we have an open appointment. I examine the dog and explain that I can surgically remove the sock, but she refuses due to cost. When I offer euthanasia as a humane alternative to watching the dog’s intestine rupture at home, she declines, saying her husband will “take care of it” when he gets home from work.
Me too. We have children, and they have first priority over our pocketbook. We had to put our darling German Shepherd to sleep because the emergency vet discovered he had an enlarged prostate, probably prostate cancer, and we could treat him with chemo but there was no guarantee it would help him. I had to weigh the financial decision and made the very hard choice to say goodbye to Duke.
Dang, vetbridge, that doesn’t seem like extortion to you? My vet, and the one before her, put emergencies first. Twice I have called and said “I’m bringing Rex in, and it’s urgent.” I was not even asked the reason why; as soon as I got there I was shown to a room and the vet (or tech, in one case) appeared.
On the other hand, I have had to wait as much as an hour when she was dealing with someone else’s emergency. Seems like part of the deal.
To be fair, I do not know if there was an open appointment or not, although I can’t imagine her charging extra for immediate attention in emergency situations. What do you tell the ones who have to wait? “I’m sorry. You were outbid for the slot?”
Contrapuntal, if one has a day wholly booked, adding an emergency treatment to the day will mean that the practice has to stay past normal hours. Which, even if vetbridge were to view his or her time as ‘free’ for this case, will likely generate OT pay for assistants or office workers who will have to stay til the last scheduled patient leaves.
So, I don’t see it as blackmail. Just passing on the increased operating costs that someone may have to accept to add someone to a busy schedule.
I’ve had relatives say similar things to me. I’ve flat-out told them to their faces that they were despicable.
With regards to OmegaGlory’s comment, I do have some sort of vague upper limit to what I might spend to keep my pets alive, of course. I think everyone does if they are honest with themselves. But if it’s a matter of a thousand dollars and it’s going to FIX WHAT’S WRONG, not just prolong their life a bit, there is no question.
FWIW, I just called my vet to get their take. They see emergencies first. As the tech said “You don’t even have to call. Just bring him in.” When I asked her if they demanded more money for emergency treatment she said “Of course not.”
I have no idea which protocol is more prominent, if either. Personally, I would find another vet if I were told not to bring an emergency patient in unless I were willing to pay extra.
