# I Pit UltraVires **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 17, 2021, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477 "2021-06-17T16:57:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/21 "2021-06-17T17:48:50Z")
The subtext is: look at those silly Blacks they can’t even get their holiday right. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/22 "2021-06-17T17:51:11Z")
Oh, I am well aware that this is perfectly in-line with the standard White Man “expectation” that his opinion is both eagerly awaited and treated with all due deference. But I’m done just shaking my head and saying “What White nonsense is this?” to myself. It was a prime polished piece of White fuckery, and it deserves to be called out as such. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/23 "2021-06-17T17:52:14Z")
I could see @Euphonious_Polemic ‘s point about it just being plain trolling. I mean, that’s pretty unfalsifiable, but it makes a measure of sense. The subtext being "those silly Blacks can’t even get their holiday right’ doesn’t make sense, though: he’s not criticizing the African-American community for celebrating Juneteenth. He’s criticizing the US government for elevating that day to be the federal holiday for the celebration of the end of slavery. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/24 "2021-06-17T17:53:23Z")
He’s criticizing the government for enabling. I mean he doesn’t care what those silly Blacks do as long as it isn’t affecting his White ass. But once they start getting the government to push this… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/25 "2021-06-17T17:53:40Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > He’s criticizing the US government for elevating that day to be the federal holiday for the celebration of the end of slavery. … because they plucked that date out of thin air? No, it is already the traditional African-American holiday. That’s not irrelevant. He _is_ criticizing them, indirectly, like the racist coward he is. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/26 "2021-06-17T17:54:21Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Oh, I am well aware that this is perfectly in-line with the standard White Man “expectation” that his opinion is both eagerly awaited and treated with all due deference. I’m not even sure what this means. When I post here, and every single post I’ve made has been unsolicited so far (though I’m looking forward to that changing!), am I posting with the standard White Man expectation that my post is eagerly awaited and treated with all due deference? Or am I just posting because it’s a message board, and I’m procrastinating at work, and that’s what one does? What about when you post here? ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/27 "2021-06-17T17:54:48Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > because they plucked that date out of thin air? No. No one’s said that, AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/28 "2021-06-17T17:55:47Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Mmm, how _could_ a non-African-American telling African-Americans they’re celebrating their own holiday all wrong, datewise, and the Fed merely acknowledging their long-existing holiday officially is “fake history”, _possibly_ be problematic? > > Why, I’m stumped… 🙄 Curiously, I’ve now seen the exact same argument on two different message boards from two different people. In nearly the same words. I think there must be some conservative media someone pushing this rather bizarre argument. Well, the woman on the other board didn’t say “fake history”, she just said they are wrong to have picked Juneteenth. And fought all the people disagreeing with her for an awful lot of posts. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/29 "2021-06-17T17:56:34Z")
When you stick your nose in to defend a racist asshole just to score “Well, ektshually” points, that’s when your White privilege is on full display. Your normal posting, I have no fucking idea. But you started out asking “is this racist”, and when you were told why, you pushed back rather than just Shutting Up And Listening. Yeah, seems like you had expectations. I have little hope you’ll actually _ **listen** _ to what I just said, though. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/30 "2021-06-17T17:57:38Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > > [@MrDibble](#): > > > > because they plucked that date out of thin air? > > No. No one’s said that, AFAIK. That’s the implication for putting all the weight of his comments on the Fed and not African-Americans, as you did. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/31 "2021-06-17T17:59:17Z")
Yes, and I’m sure that’s why WV’s cleverest lawyer didn’t simply ask the question “why is June19th celebrated?” but then followed up by adding the editorial comment that it is “false history”. If it was just the question itself, that’s acceptable and a teachable moment. Adding the “false history” comment? Come on! That’s a pretty obvious troll signal. MrDibble is right on this point, at least - we give old white dudes a hell of a lot of benefit of the doubt even when their own words give us ample reason not to. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/32 "2021-06-17T18:02:20Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > we give old white dudes a hell of a lot of benefit of the doubt even when their own words give us ample reason not to. He’s really not that old. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/33 "2021-06-17T18:04:58Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Yes, and I’m sure that’s why WV’s cleverest lawyer didn’t simply ask the question “why is June19th celebrated?” but then followed up by adding the editorial comment that it is “false history”. > > If it was just the question itself, that’s acceptable and a teachable moment. Adding the “false history” comment? Yeah, I mean, he was expressing an opinion, not just asking a question. I guess I’m trying to tease about the nature of the objection. Is it a) the opinion is wrong b) it’s wrong for a white person to express an opinion at all on when the US government should recognize the end of slavery c) it’s specifically wrong for UltraVires to express that opinion given his past history d) it’s offered in bad faith e) other > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > MrDibble is right on this point, at least - we give old white dudes a hell of a lot of benefit of the doubt even when their own words give us ample reason not to. No doubt. But I’m trying to figure out how this particular post fits into that pattern. Is the “benefit of the doubt” my (so far) refusal to automatically assume he offered that opinion in bad faith? Or my stubborn belief that he’s entitled to offer that opinion, despite his whiteness? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/34 "2021-06-17T18:07:42Z")
Oh fuck off already. You know exactly who he is and what he’s doing. Nobody’s buying it. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/35 "2021-06-17T18:08:55Z")
n/m, I don’t care ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/36 "2021-06-17T18:09:12Z")
It would not be wrong for a White person to have offered a **polite** opinion. Some time in the 1860s. _Maybe_. It _is_ wrong for a White person to offer an opinion _in opposition to African-Americans’ chosen date_ **now**. Especially with such a complete fucking insulting tone - “false history”, my ass. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/37 "2021-06-17T18:12:04Z")
Yeah, we can all see how much you “don’t care” by how many posts you’ve made defending this piece of racist shit. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/38 "2021-06-17T18:21:04Z")
That was specifically in response to @friedo, not the thread in general. And would you quit with this ‘defending’ nonsense. I’m not some UV white knight. I’m totally on-board with most of the UV pitting. This particular OP seemed a little innocuous is all. I think I’ve been relatively clear in this thread: I agree that we should use Juneteenth as the end-of-slavery holiday for basically the reason that’s already been articulated in this thread: it’s long been used by the African American community for that purpose. I’m just not on-board with the idea that a white person can’t believe that a different date - like the anniversary of the 13th amendment - should be used instead. Or that they can’t express that opinion here, today, in 2021. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/39 "2021-06-17T18:23:18Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > And would you quit with this ‘defending’ nonsense. I’m not some UV white knight. I’ll believe that when you Shut The Fuck Up And Listen. Rather than continue to flap your lips about what _you’re_ “just” not on-board with. Yes, White Lawyer Man _can_ express an opinion. The point is that he _should_ not. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/40 "2021-06-17T18:24:12Z")
Look, we clearly need to ~~kidnap~~ allow all the poor negro chiles to grow up in an atmosphere where they learn proper history the White… I mean, right way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477.md?page=3)