# I Pit UltraVires **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 17, 2021, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477 "2021-06-17T16:57:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/61 "2021-06-17T19:55:16Z")
I don’t think the right word is “arbitrary” for July 4th. Arbitrary would be if they just picked a day that had nothing to do with independence, like October 9th. Instead July 4th is the date that Congress chose to declare independence and to affix to the document produce (the Declaration of Independence.) The vote happened July 2nd, but they essentially voted to make the declaration be on July 4th. So the date is fairly logical in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/62 "2021-06-17T19:56:12Z")
Kind of similar to Juneteenth, isn’t it? Not completely arbitrary but other dates would make sense as well. That was the point being made. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/63 "2021-06-17T19:58:26Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I don’t think UV claims to speak for the trees. But I wouldn’t put it past him to try I talk to the trees, but they don’t listen to me. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/64 "2021-06-17T19:58:37Z")
I mean I would say Juneteenth is not arbitrary either, it is tied to a specific event on a specific date. Arbitrary: > based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system. That doesn’t fit either July 4th or Juneteenth. It does arguably fit Christmas for example. There is no historical evidence Christians really had a clue what Jesus’s birthdate was, scriptural evidence suggests it certainly was not in December. They basically picked a convenient time because they had already been celebrating holidays around that time anyway as pagans. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/65 "2021-06-17T20:00:53Z")
OK, OK, my deepest apologies for the incorrect use of the word arbitrary. I hope that you can forgive me. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/66 "2021-06-17T20:01:11Z")
Christmas wasn’t arbitrary at all. The church picked it so that they didn’t have to tell new converts to stop celebrating the winter solstice. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/67 "2021-06-17T20:09:14Z")
“race baiting” must be the new “uppity”. Of course, what else to expect from everyone’s favourite genocide denialist (who isn’t named Deth). ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/68 "2021-06-17T20:09:26Z")
Hey man shut up. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/69 "2021-06-17T20:10:37Z")
Did anyone hear something ? Sounded like White noise. ---
**Author:** ![CorpusNeptune](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corpusneptune/32/17561_2.png) [@CorpusNeptune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CorpusNeptune)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/70 "2021-06-17T20:16:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I talk to the trees, but they don’t listen to me. Maybe try talking to the corn? They’re all ears 😉 ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/71 "2021-06-17T20:23:39Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > My question is, how does Arbor Day factor into this? - Classic example of can’t see the forest for the trees. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/72 "2021-06-17T20:31:16Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Classic example of can’t see the forest for the trees. Maybe we should just leaf it alone ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/73 "2021-06-17T20:32:54Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Did anyone hear something ? Sounded like White noise. Okay I won’t lie. That quip made me chuckle. That was well-done. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/74 "2021-06-17T20:44:28Z")
That’s when we worship Treesus. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/75 "2021-06-17T21:07:46Z")
What about Columbus Day? Y’all are still celebrating that fiction with pride! I thought a lot of slaves didn’t actually learn they’d been freed, for a long while after the amendment was passed. Which would make any date good, as long as it’s their choice. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/76 "2021-06-17T21:09:10Z")
I mean that latter part is specifically how Juneteenth came to be, it was when slaves in Galveston TX found out they were free. We do still celebrate Columbus Day despite virtually no one having a genuine affinity for Columbus and there being lots of good reasons not to celebrate him. The Italian American community kind of made it “their” day, which was a political concern in maintaining it for many years, but I don’t even think that’s particularly true anymore. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/77 "2021-06-17T21:09:41Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The guy you were talking to (@MrDibble) is a well known race baiting imbecile, I wouldn’t take it personally. Dude. You revealed that your reason for posting here is to slap down liberal sheep, saying you think anyone who disagrees with you has a mental illness. Your evaluation of other posters is not going to be convincing. You can’t just attack people who disagree with you and somehow win the argument. MrDibble is a black guy. He is a subject matter expert on what is racist towards black people. He’s explaining to a white person who has shown a lack of knowledge on the subject what the issue. And that white person is irritating him as he seems to be ignoring what he actually said and arguing other shit–i.e. he doesn’t seem to be listening. To listen is to try and understand, not to try and argue that the other person is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/78 "2021-06-17T21:10:31Z")
I never said any of those things, and you’re fairly infamous on these boards for having posted something like 50,000 posts almost all of them mind numbingly stupid, so you can take your advice and fuck right off with it. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/79 "2021-06-17T21:13:00Z")
And Dibbie isn’t a “subject matter expert” on anything, that requires erudition and intellect which he has never demonstrated. He’s been a raging asshole and trouble maker for like 15 years or so of reading his posts on this board. I’m not sure if it’s because he’s from one of the biggest hellhole countries on earth (I wouldn’t be too thrilled with that, either), or if he’s just got perpetual little man syndrome, but I’ve never seen him contribute much of value to these boards. Instead I can find threads even from 10 years ago where all he’s doing is elbowing through otherwise good discussions raging out like a stupid bitch. I’m surprised he’s never been suspended. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2021, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477/80 "2021-06-17T21:14:16Z")
Boy @Martin_Hyde for someone that wants the Pit closed you sure love using it to its fullest! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ultravires/944477.md?page=5)