One vote never matters, and if you don’t live in a swing state, then it’s no big deal anyway. It’s cathartic to vote, and I always do, but except in very local elections, nothing is going to be decided by one vote. I wouldn’t worry about it.
Your problem is you think we’re all in this together. So does the President. That’s offensive, especially when the 49% that don’t pay a dime to pull their weight try to whine “b-b-b-but I pay sales tax!” or about how they simply can’t possibly be expected to take advantage of 13 years of free education to actually learn a useful skill, or how military service is just too much to ask in return for meals, a bed, and a paycheck.
The liberals go on and on about the rich and poor, but all I see are ants and grasshoppers.
This is the kind of thread that pretty much guarantees hijacks early and often. I’m just sayin’.
Question for you; what is the percent that isn’t very young or very old or living at or below the poverty line?
Well your problem is you’re filled with irrational hatred for other people. Jesus.
Seniors who have worked a LIFETIME and are now retired are among that 49 percent.
People on disability and CAN’T work are among that 49 percent.
People who work FULL TIME but are paid so little they don’t HAVE to pay federal income taxes are among that 49 percent.
You know who else doesn’t pay any — ANY — federal income tax?
Some millionaires and billionaires. In fact, in 2009, more than 35 THOUSAND of them had a federal tax liability of ZERO.
Mitt Romney brags about the fact that he pays so little in federal taxes because he pays “all the taxes that are legally due.” Well guess what, bub, so do those below the poverty line!
But I don’t see you talking smack about the millionaires and billionaires who pay ZERO or act like they’re leeches on American society because they find every maneuver possible to HIDE their money so they can get away with paying ZERO to 13 percent instead of what they should RIGHTFULLY be paying to the country that made it possible for them to earn those kind of fortunes in the first place.
You’re a Grade A asshole. Please don’t vote.
Ah, the American way.
“Fuck you, I’ve got mine.”
“I am doing OK because I’m smart and work hard. You’re poor because you’re stupid and/or lazy”
You completely misunderstand me. I don’t fault the households that don’t pay taxes. I fault Congress for letting them get away with it. As far a billionaires go, they’ve paid more tax than I ever will in my lifetime. And I thank them for their service. If we fixed the tax code so that billionaires paid the same percentage as someone lower, then that’s fine. But the idea that it needs to be drastically more than everyone else is so unfair, it’s remarkable people can say that with a straight face.
If you want to be a grasshopper, that’s fine. Just don’t expect the ants to keep giving you food.
You say it like it’s not true.
Bullshit. You fault the people who use the tax law exactly the same way as Mitt Romney does by accusing them of WHINING. That’s just fucking pathetic.
Not to mention, the tax laws that allow the POOR to wind up not owing any federal income tax are designed that way because they couldn’t afford to live on any less money if they were taxed higher. Millionaires and billionaires, on the other hand, can afford to live just fine, but use the tax code to avoid their responsibilities.
Here, I’ll let deeply conservative Senator Tom Coburn explain it to you:
Subsidies of the Rich & Famous
"The government safety net has been cast far and wide, with almost half of all American households now receiving some form of government assistance. But most taxpayers will be asking why when they learn who is receiving what.
"From tax write-offs for gambling losses, vacation homes, and luxury yachts to subsidies for their ranches and estates, the government is subsidizing the lifestyles of the rich and famous.** Multimillionaires are even receiving government checks for not working.** This welfare for the well-off – costing billions of dollars a year – is being paid for with the taxes of the less fortunate, many who are working two jobs just to make ends meet, and IOUs to be paid off by future generations.
"This is not an accidental loophole in the law. To the contrary, this reverse Robin Hood style of wealth redistribution is an intentional effort to get all Americans bought into a system where everyone appears to benefit. …
“The government’s social safety net, which has long existed to catch those who are down and help them get back up, **is now being used as a hammock by some millionaires, some who are paying less taxes than average middle class families. **Comprehensive information on the full range of government benefits enjoyed by millionaires has never been collected previously. This report provides the first such compilation. What it reveals is sheer Washington stupidity with government policies pampering the wealthy costing taxpayers billions of dollars every year.”
So frankly, I don’t give a rat’s ass how much they’ve paid in taxes as a dollar amount. I care deeply that they have avoided paying their fair share of taxes and, as Senator Coburn says, cost us billions of dollars … every year.
As for tax philosophy, I’ll let one of our country’s Founders explain that to you.
"The Remissness of our People in Paying Taxes is highly blameable; the Unwillingness to pay them is still more so. I see, in some Resolutions of Town Meetings, a Remonstrance against giving Congress a Power to take, as they call it, the People’s Money out of their Pockets, tho’ only to pay the Interest and Principal of Debts duly contracted. They seem to mistake the Point. Money, justly due from the People, is their Creditors’ Money, and no longer the Money of the People, who, if they withold it, should be compell’d to pay by some Law.
“All Property, indeed, except the Savage’s temporary Cabin, his Bow, his Matchcoat, and other little Acquisitions, absolutely necessary for his Subsistence, seems to me to be the Creature of public Convention. Hence the Public has the Right of Regulating Descents, and all other Conveyances of Property, and even of limiting the Quantity and the Uses of it. All the Property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other Laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it.” ~ Benjamin Franklin
Our laws make it possible for millionaires and billionaires to become millionaires and billionaires, so The People have a right to create other laws to make use of a portion of those proceeds for The Common Good. Don’t like it? Go live with the savages.
Well, it’s certainly not as cut and dried as you would seem to think.
- Many rich folks do very little work, as they inherited wealth.
- Many poor folk are in that situation because of bad luck (laid off due to no fault of their own) or bad health (combined with no insurance) or other factors outside of their direct control.
- Many poorly paid jobs are actually quite taxing, physically and mentally. Those who hold them are not lazy, or stupid.
Believe it or not, it is sometimes difficult to get ahead, bad luck sometimes happens, and being smart and a hard worker does not guarantee (as you seem to think) that you will get rich.
You’re suffering from the common misconception that your experience in life is the ONLY experience that counts, and you seem to be unable to empathize with others; A perfect Republican.
Yes, by all means, let’s base our tax policies on a fable about sentient insects.
Anyway, I’m trying to figure out how increasing taxes on the poor makes them, and me, better off, but obviously it’s far too sophisticated a concept for my simple mind.
I think you guys are making the OP even more undecided.
Or more apathetic.
Let me be clear: They made their bed. They can lie in it. Fuck 'em.
Our laws make it possible for the poor to, y’know, not die. Time to pay for the privilege. Don’t like it? Go live with the savages.
I think we were pretty clear on your position before you most recent clarification, but thanks.
Anyway, how very…Randian…of you. So, I’m curious, do you own a business you built from the ground up? Are you one of those guys who claims that if your tax burden gets too high, you’ll shut it all down? Are you a, a, job creator?
I am impressed by the passion with which you express your beliefs, and had no idea what deprivation you’ve suffered so that a few poor people, y’know, not die. Of course I’ll help you fuck 'em, whatever was I thinking?
Who exactly is the grasshopper, and who are the ants?
Who does all the work, and who reaps all the reward?
“Ma’am…the peasants are angry. They’re saying they don’t have enough…you know…food.”
“UGH!!! They should have thought of that before they became peasants!”
Not your laws, pal. Those were our laws. *Your *laws were the ones that literally enslaved other humans for 99% of history.
We have peasants? How quaint!
Really?
100% of the poor people are 100% responsible for 100% of everything that has ever happened to them?
The guy who was out of a job because the CFO absconded with all the money? How is that his fault?
The woman who got cancer and had to sell her house because the insurance company practiced rescinded her policy due to her previous acne medication? How is that her fault?
But hey. You’ve got your pile, so fuck em.
To the OP: This is the choice you have - you can vote along with Chessic Sense and his ilk, or with those who give a damn. Your call.
Reminds me of Incomprehension. Chessic Sense, I ask you what I asked him: Imagine if one of the many grasshoppers intruded on one of the few ant’s expansive gardens in order to toil for his meals? It wouldn’t be fair that an ant’s property which was earned by virtue of birth be intruded on by a grasshopper desiring to subsist, would it?
Yeah, but if they’re stupid and/or lazy they’ll just piss it all away in 5 years and become poor.
Well, then they should take control of their lives. You always have to be meeting people and making connections so that you can get another job through a friend.
They’re clearly lazy, if they weren’t they’d learn electrical engineering in their spare time after getting home from carpentry instead of watching TV or talking with friends.
Some areas just require you to be smarter and a harder worker, it’s never insurmountable. You just might have to work 80-90 hour weeks and only have bare necessities in your house.
(I don’t actually believe in any of this, but I’ve heard the damned rebuttals so often I might as well make the conversation write itself)